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Old 05-12-2017, 08:16 AM   #1
chevy_dude97
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Default 89 745 slow/hard start

Background of start issues; Starter had been sticking on(ignition was dirty) and one day the wife drove about 1-1.5 miles with the starter engaged. It has only made a little noise when starting since, seemed to me maybe a couple teeth where marred by the starter. However it still started just fine, so I am really putting that to the back of probable causes.

Now the car today acted like it had no fuel. It made a bit of noise while spinning over(see above)

This just started today and I have only been able to minimally trouble shoot.
I tried key on-off-on-off-on-start to see if the pump would run and maybe it was a low fuel pressure deal. This had no change in the slow start.

Then I tried to start the car in WOT(Wide Open Throttle), this worked... and I know it is fuel injection and not carbed so why would a WOT position help?
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:55 AM   #2
EivlEvo
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Im confused about what you mean when you say the starter was sticking...

Like, as in the teeth remained engaged with the flywheel rather than retracting? And are you saying you're having starting issues CAUSED by that, or you had issues PRIOR to that. (Are we chasing one problem or multiple?)

If you left the starter engaged, the starter is just a large electric motor (basically) and it's designed to only function within a certain range I'd imagine. This range is certainly sub 1000 RPM and as such... if it were to stick on the flywheel, it would be functionally a generator. This would power the electromagnets in the motor the other way, and could burn up the circuits in there. So... you might just have a short in your starter motor that only presents itself when it can't make the arc to complete the circuit. Additionally, though I've never looked on a Volvo, I'd imagine there's a relay in the way, and some aspect of that could've been damaged so it is no longer making a clean contact.

This would probably only present itself (the relay that is) if when you turned the key and heard nothing. I suspect you're turning the key and hearing the starter whirr. If the starter is whirring, but not engaging with the flywheel... then my theory may be correct and it's burned out. If it's engaging, and the car isn't starting, then lets get some clarification on the problems... the post was a touch vague for me.
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:35 AM   #3
chevy_dude97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
Im confused about what you mean when you say the starter was sticking...

Like, as in the teeth remained engaged with the flywheel rather than retracting? And are you saying you're having starting issues CAUSED by that, or you had issues PRIOR to that. (Are we chasing one problem or multiple?)
Yes, the starter was staying on and engaged. I fixed that problem by spraying some contact cleaner into the ignition switch.

So when the car would not start, I immediately looked to the starter/ignition as a culprit. Turns out after further troubleshooting it sounds like the starter is not engaging the starter pinion, or the flywheel/pinion is missing teeth. I am leaning on the starter.

The other part of the hard start is,(so yes 2 issues) when completely cold it will fire immediately. But if it has been run up to temp, it takes some cranking. This compounds the whole solenoid/possible missing teeth problem as when it doesn't start right off I get the whine of the starter but no motor movement or slight movement then just the whine of the starter spinning.

I did get it to start by pushing it in gear a little to move the flywheel a bit but I did not get eyes on it so I cannot say without pulling it, if it is truly missing teeth. However it is so intermittent I don't know which observations to trust. Looks like I am going to pull the starter this week.
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:43 AM   #4
EivlEvo
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Based on the starter issue, I'd get in and replace. It's probably not missing teeth just because of how fast it spins, but if the starter got all screwed up, you may have a resistance issue that prevents it from pushing itself all the way out.

For the won't start when warm issue the FIRST thing I'd take a look at is the coolant temp sensor. It would seem that your car has no issue with the typical air/fuel/spark arrangement, but it DOES have an issue with it once it's warm. This could be a few other things, but I'd start with checking that CTS out (which happens to be near the starter... kind of)
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Old 05-16-2017, 02:40 AM   #5
chevy_dude97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
Based on the starter issue, I'd get in and replace.
I figured this and have one on order, I was pretty amazed the starter held up 4 months after being driven 2 miles engaged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EivlEvo View Post
For the won't start when warm issue the FIRST thing I'd take a look at is the coolant temp sensor.
Is there a way to scope or ohm it out? Or is this a shotgun kind of part?
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Old 05-16-2017, 10:14 AM   #6
EivlEvo
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You should be able to check the resistance on it iirc... I don't have the values though.

NVM... found them in this thread: https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/fo...ic.php?t=48031

At 0C it should be 5800-6000 ohms
At 20C it should be 2200-2400 ohms
At 40C it should be 1000-12000 ohms

This is obviously for the two pronged version.

I can also tell you that everyone says to pull the IM to replace it. I did it without, from above the car (rather than under it) using ratchet extensions and such. Didn't even drain the coolant... lost only a bit. Meh.
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Old 05-16-2017, 08:27 PM   #7
ZVOLV
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Quote:
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Is there a way to scope or ohm it out? Or is this a shotgun kind of part?
No scope needed here. Just ohm spec each pin at the sensor to ground. Well actually is it turbo or not?! 2.2 sensor is across each pin. Not to ground on each pin like 2.4. Also it's the the rear sensor.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:06 AM   #8
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Thanks guys.
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:41 AM   #9
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Ok so quick update, I finally got the starter from rockauto(takes forever to ship to APO) and boo bam, starter works!

It was a pretty straight forward swap, I did it from the top end, by removing the intake. Which led me to find oil in the intake...fml
I do currently have a positive crank vent problem, and have been putting off the flame trap R2 for some time as I don't want to break anything else while doing it. I was waiting for my next oil change so I can run some cleaner through the tube and have it drain out the oil pan. I cleaned up the throttle body and took all the oil(small puddle) out of the elbow.

What can cause this oil build up? Is it from the PCV issue? Should I look at something else as a cause?
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