IPD high rev lifter and pushrods not seating?

Hello again!

As some of you may know I'm building an big bore b20 with a NOS big bore kit I got off ebay!

Most of it has gone together without a hitch! (you can see the progression here: BigBoreB20 )

But I ran into a snag yesterday. When I went to put the lifters in they seemed to fit into their bores in a really snug way. They didn't "drop to the cam under their own weight" like the instructions said they should. I didn't think that much of it since once the holes were properly lubed they seemed to move freely.

I proceeded to install the head and the rocker arm and that's when I noticed the problem. I wasn't able to set the lash on valves 3 and 6 because it was too tight.

I took the rocker arm on and off for the next couple of hours, switching around push rods, double checking to make sure the rocker arm wasn't torqued down too much, etc. Still, valves 3 and 6 are sticking.

Anyone have any ideas on what I can do to remedy this?

-Joe

P.S. Eric at HiPerformance has graciously offered to look at it for me but I'm really trying avoid crating the engine and driving it down to him. He is nice and I am lazy.

Not quite following what you are saying. Are 3 and 6 moving up and down, just a bit too tight, even with the adjuster backed all the way off? Or when you say they are sticking, they're not moving?

JohnMc said:

Not quite following what you are saying. Are 3 and 6 moving up and down, just a bit too tight, even with the adjuster backed all the way off? Or when you say they are sticking, they're not moving?

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My bad! Yes with the adjuster all the way backed out I can't get a feeler gauge in there when the engine is in the appropriate place to adjust lash for those valves.

If they're moving up and down, then it's not very likely that they'd be hanging up on the last bit of travel.

Has the head been shaved? At the other 6 valves *close* to their adjuster's limits, or are those two notably different than the others?

I had to get a custom(shorter) set of pushrods for my PV's motor, because both the R-Sport head I have was shaved waaaay down (before I got it) and I'm using a KGTrimning 'bridge' that lowers the rocker arms slightly as well. And some roller rockers. All in all, couldn't back the adjusters off far enough to get enough gap (or any) on all 8.

Another possibility is a receded valve or two in the head? Lay a flat edge along all the valve tips and see if any poke out more than the others. They don't have to be exact (that's why the adjusters are there), but if 3 and 6 stick out more than the others, that could be the issue.

Put a straight edge across the top of all of the valve stems, do #3 & 6 stick up farther?

JohnMc said:

If they're moving up and down, then it's not very likely that they'd be hanging up on the last bit of travel.

Has the head been shaved? At the other 6 valves *close* to their adjuster's limits, or are those two notably different than the others?

I had to get a custom(shorter) set of pushrods for my PV's motor, because both the R-Sport head I have was shaved waaaay down (before I got it) and I'm using a KGTrimning 'bridge' that lowers the rocker arms slightly as well. And some roller rockers. All in all, couldn't back the adjusters off far enough to get enough gap (or any) on all 8.

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The head was shaved down but not to b20e specs. And we adjusted the valve stems to compensate for that. As well as rebuilt the rocker arm and tidied up the pads on it.

Those two valve adjustments are way different from the other 6.

oemoilleaks said:

Those two valve adjustments are way different from the other 6.

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So it's not a stack height issue.

Easy to narrow down a valve stem height issue.

Past that, I guess I'd just measure the amount each valve is going up and down. And see if 3 & 6 are going up and down less. Either way, if it's something in the block, I'd be thinking about pulling the head off to take a look.

I'm with John on this one.

If your movement is on spec and on par with the others, the rockers are all the same, and the valve stems are all within a small variance, I'd begin looking at the cam to see if a lobe wasn't ground right. If you're not seeing full movement, there might be some buildup in the lifter bores or possibly some lifter bore damage.

I recall way back I bought a new D cam from IPD when I was building my 2130 up. Installed the head, every single rocker was 1/4" from touching the pushrods, with the adjustment all the way in. Ended up buying a W61 and everything lined up normal again.

JohnMc said:

So it's not a stack height issue.

Easy to narrow down a valve stem height issue.

Past that, I guess I'd just measure the amount each valve is going up and down. And see if 3 & 6 are going up and down less. Either way, if it's something in the block, I'd be thinking about pulling the head off to take a look.

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I checked the valves and made sure they were all level.

Then I thought, let's see what happens when I flip the engine over without the pushrods in it. You know what happened? Nothing. None of the lifters fell out.

I ended up taking off the head (throwing $110 right into the trash can) and did my best to extract the lifters. I took them to the machine shop to double check my measurements and it turns out the lifters are a couple thou bigger than the stock. Just enough to get stuck in the block a little.

So the next step is to try to polish the lifter bores a little. Question is: Do the crank, pistons, and rods need to come out of the block to do it safely?

Get another set of lifters and check the size,been there done that, on an MGB motor. I would not try to enlarge the bore in the block for the lifters.

+1 - I wouldn't modify the block to accept some off-spec lifters.

Hello Joe,

When we rebuilt our very 1st Volvo engine back in the early 1980's, we bought all of our parts from IPD and we used their lifters and we had a serious problem shortly after we built the engine.

1 of the pushrods broke through the top of a lifter while fooling around at El Mirage dry lake bed.

We switched to Isky lifters after that and we have never used anything else since in our performance Volvo pushrod motors.

FYI, I think IPD switched to Isky lifters.

Yeah, they just sell Isky lifters.

If you buy a set for an 'Iron Duke' 4 cylinder, it's about the cheapest way to get 8 instead of 16.

JohnMc said:

Yeah, they just sell Isky lifters.

If you buy a set for an 'Iron Duke' 4 cylinder, it's about the cheapest way to get 8 instead of 16.

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That's a good idea! I ended up taking the cam out and using some sandpaper on a rod to just hone the bore a bit. I think they were just getting caught on some imperceptible burrs.

I put it back together but, truth be told, am really hung over and couldn't remember how to set the valve lash. I mean I read the manual, and know the order, I just couldn't seem to get it right.

But a weird thing was happening with the lifters. When it's completely dry they lifters drop right through the block. But as soon as I put assembly lube (or just regular ol oil) they get kinda hung up and won't just drop freely to the cam.

I'm not opposed to buying new lifters, but as this is my first engine build I want to understand what's fouling up here so I can learn.

oemoilleaks said:

That's a good idea! I ended up taking the cam out and using some sandpaper on a rod to just hone the bore a bit. I think they were just getting caught on some imperceptible burrs.

I put it back together but, truth be told, am really hung over and couldn't remember how to set the valve lash. I mean I read the manual, and know the order, I just couldn't seem to get it right.

But a weird thing was happening with the lifters. When it's completely dry they lifters drop right through the block. But as soon as I put assembly lube (or just regular ol oil) they get kinda hung up and won't just drop freely to the cam.

I'm not opposed to buying new lifters, but as this is my first engine build I want to understand what's fouling up here so I can learn.

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The oil is taking the small clearance that is there, like it should.

I think, at least.

vwbusman66 said:

The oil is taking the small clearance that is there, like it should.

I think, at least.

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It seems like that's what it's supposed to do right? And at temp obviously the oil will thin out and allow it all to move smoothly

JohnMc said:

Yeah, they just sell Isky lifters.

If you buy a set for an 'Iron Duke' 4 cylinder, it's about the cheapest way to get 8 instead of 16.

Click to expand...

You mean these? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/isk-202h-8/applications/make/pontiac?prefilter=1

Eric, I hear you about the lifters and the pushrods but I'm wondering: was just a random bad experience? Or was this something that was known in the mid 90s?

Again, not that I'm opposed to buying more parts that I already have, I just want to mitigate additional costs if I can. I'm already so over budget lol.