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Old 12-24-2014, 09:50 AM   #1
J_Jones
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Default Brake Bleeding Woes

Just installed SS brake lines on an 88 245 and am being held up at the RR caliper. LR and both Front Uppers bled great. I had the motive at 15psi and the RR bleeder open for 10 min and nothing has come out. I then pumped it up to 23psi and nadda. Took the nylon sender out of the junction block as well as the needle thing, 23psi, nadda. 23psi and tapping the line from the MC, tapping the junction, tapping the rear valves, tapping the ling all along the rearend, nadda.

From everything you have read that I have tried, you can tell that I have searched and am now out of ideas. Thoughts? Thanks as always!
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:53 AM   #2
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Left something out: Before I gave up last night I lowered the front of the car and it is sitting on my jack while the rear is up in the air 2 feet. Been like that all night. Went back out this morning, pumped the motive to 20psi, crossed my fingers, popped the bleeder....nadda. It is actually sitting in that position with 23psi in the motive and the bleeder open as we speak and nothing is coming through the line.
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Old 12-24-2014, 09:58 AM   #3
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If you can't loosen a blockage with a paper clip into the bleed port, crack the fitting loose at the caliper's line connection. Make sure you can bleed to there.

By "SS lines" I assume you are talking about the nylon flex lines covered in rubber and a stainless mesh braid everyone believes to be an upgrade?

Why would you take the switch out of the octopus?

And get a zip tie around that reservoir before you blow it off of the master with 20 psi.
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Old 12-24-2014, 11:06 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanflametrap View Post
If you can't loosen a blockage with a paper clip into the bleed port, crack the fitting loose at the caliper's line connection. Make sure you can bleed to there.

By "SS lines" I assume you are talking about the nylon flex lines covered in rubber and a stainless mesh braid everyone believes to be an upgrade?

Why would you take the switch out of the octopus?

And get a zip tie around that reservoir before you blow it off of the master with 20 psi.
Yep, IPD SS lines to replace the OE '88 lines along with ATE SL fluid. In regards to the switch on the junction, my searching for similar problems found posts that I should remove the switch in case the shuttle was trapped on on side and preventing fluid from going to that circuit; figured it was worth a try and I cleaned up everything in there while I was at it. Zip ties in place

Going to see if I can bleed at the line attached to the caliper right now and will report back, thank you for the suggestion!
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Old 12-24-2014, 11:43 AM   #5
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In regards to the switch on the junction, my searching for similar problems found posts that I should remove the switch in case the shuttle was trapped on on side and preventing fluid from going to that circuit; figured it was worth a try and I cleaned up everything in there while I was at it.
Oh, ok, I understand. I think those posts are speculation, not experience, because if the shuttle were to move, it would never block any hydraulic paths to the brakes. But it worked out great for you if you had no trouble re-installing the switch after cleaning. Maybe less rust on yours?

So far in those I've had slow bleeding, the ATe bleeder path has consistently been the culprit. You can probably tell by the pad condition whether the caliper was working both sides when you began the project. It is really easy to go a long time with a rear brake piston stuck.
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Old 12-24-2014, 11:59 AM   #6
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Good call on disconnecting the line at the caliper! Successfully bled there and new, clean fluid coming out. With that said, I think we can point at the caliper as the culprit. I was able to remove the bleeder with the motive applying pressure and still nothing came out. Cleaned the bleeder and cleaned the hole as best I could with a paper clip and still not getting anything. Funny though, like you said, the pads look even and match the other side as far as thickness, so I would assume it has been working. I probably knocked something loose and it made it way inside the caliper and clogged it up. I suppose my next course of action is going to be to remove the caliper from its mount with a small amount of line pressure still applied and work the pistons back and forth in an attempt to break that clog free.

All else fails, I'll grab a new caliper. Thank you for your assistance diagnosing the problem!
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:14 PM   #7
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Moderatly "massage" the caliper with you BFH, while pressure is applied, with the bleeder out.
You don't need to be very gentle.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:16 PM   #8
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Moderatly "massage" the caliper with you BFH, while pressure is applied, with the bleeder out.
You don't need to be very gentle.
At this time, 3 different hammers have been applied to said caliper
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:23 PM   #9
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I agree with all advice here. In my experience, no flow through caliper is always due to blocked bleeder port. Maybe try more agressive poking with something more long and stiff than a paper clip.


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stainless mesh braid everyone believes to be an upgrade
You disagree or have conflicting evidence? If you would care to elaborate, I am curious.


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Old 12-24-2014, 12:51 PM   #10
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Loosing hope in this caliper.. I was able to get the pistons to push out but I can not push them back in, even with the bleeder open and no pressure on the brake system. I have gotten as far as I can into that bleeder hole and not hitting anything in there. Bummer, all junkyards are closed at the moment and the parts store rebuilds are always a hit and miss kind of deal.
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Old 12-24-2014, 12:54 PM   #11
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You disagree or have conflicting evidence? If you would care to elaborate, I am curious.
The stainless lines' plastic liner are prone to failure when they are bent or crimped by for example hanging the calipers from them while changing discs.
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Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

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Old 12-24-2014, 01:01 PM   #12
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Well, a sign of our aging vehicles: no parts store has it in stock anywhere but their regional warehouses. I am going to pull the caliper off the vehicle, cap the line as best I can to prevent getting air back in there, and then do my best to free up the pistons. Wish me luck!
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:51 PM   #13
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Well, I took the caliper off and tried to blow 100psi through the bleeder port with no success. I tried to unplug the bleeder port with a tiny flathead and hammer but it was backed up against the wall of the other half. I ended up separating the two halves and then was able to knock the rust/sludge/gunk thing out of the bleeder port. I blew air through each hole and cleaned up everything as best I could. Looking at the two seals that go between the two halves and them seeming still rubbery and in good shape, I put the two halves back together.

Put the caliper back on, bled it good, and with 25psi from the motive I am not seeing any leakage between the two halves. Got a nice firm pedal and I am going to finish up the bleeding process. I will say that I am a little weary of that caliper though. Run it and see if it leaks or go ahead and order a new caliper?
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Old 12-24-2014, 01:51 PM   #14
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While you have the line disconnected, block the brake pedal 1-1/2 to 2 inches, pull the fuse for the brake lights, and your line will cease dripping. Whittled golf tee works too, if you're not going to be long. The seals in the master are much more effective at preventing flow from the res than the old plastic wrap under the Euro reservoir cap trick.



If you decide to free up the pistons and your air supply won't move them, luck gives us a very similar thread -- enough to mate up a few turns worth -- sealing well enough to allow a grease gun to do the work with hydraulics. I know the Sunday evening make do with what you have on hand desperation. It makes a mess, so clean the caliper really well with alcohol before using it in the car again. Cleaning after doing this is one of the ways I got to learn the fluid passages in ATe calipers.



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Old 12-24-2014, 01:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by J_Jones View Post
Well, I took the caliper off and tried to blow 100psi through the bleeder port with no success. I tried to unplug the bleeder port with a tiny flathead and hammer but it was backed up against the wall of the other half. I ended up separating the two halves and then was able to knock the rust/sludge/gunk thing out of the bleeder port. I blew air through each hole and cleaned up everything as best I could. Looking at the two seals that go between the two halves and them seeming still rubbery and in good shape, I put the two halves back together.

Put the caliper back on, bled it good, and with 25psi from the motive I am not seeing any leakage between the two halves. Got a nice firm pedal and I am going to finish up the bleeding process. I will say that I am a little weary of that caliper though. Run it and see if it leaks or go ahead and order a new caliper?
Oh, you work faster than I can type!

I measured some of those seals on the Girling fronts, finding them 0.013" thicker than the counterbores.

Good work. I think, when it comes to rear brakes, you could go with the caliper you fixed if you just stick your head under there a few times to check for wetness once you get braking-generated fluid pressure experience in there. This is of course, your own car.
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Old 12-24-2014, 02:26 PM   #16
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Everything is bled and buttoned up. That old fluid was probably the worst I have ever seen. Good ATE stuff in there now. Pedal is nice and firm, no leaks as of now.

Thanks to everyone for the help, especially you Art. You are correct, this is my personal car, and I will be checking for leaks frequently.

Another Volvo back on the road
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Old 12-24-2014, 03:01 PM   #17
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Great thread.

I have always heard "never separate the caliper halves". Any special tips on that, or is the warning just to keep us turbobricks dummies from doing it?
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:35 PM   #18
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Great thread.

I have always heard "never separate the caliper halves". Any special tips on that, or is the warning just to keep us turbobricks dummies from doing it?
It's hard to get them to seal up properly after being taken apart.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:15 PM   #19
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I always hear that too, especially for 122 calipers because the caliper half seals are supposed to be NLA or something. Mike Dudek at Iroll offers some seals that are supposed to be for the halves and they worked great on my brakes.
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