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Old 11-12-2018, 02:46 PM   #1
poulrais
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Default AQ151 crank

I have an AQ151 crank with the middle thrust bearing. I also have a 1994 B230FT squirter block with the thrust on #5 main. Is there way to machine the block or the crank so one will fit in the other or should I just try to find an AQ151/171 forged crankof a later year motor with the #5 thrust?

And yes I did search but couldn't find the answer to that specific question.
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Old 11-12-2018, 02:53 PM   #2
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Aside from the thrust location difference the main journals are 55mm on a center thrust, 63mm on a rear thrust.
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Aside from the thrust location difference the main journals are 55mm on a center thrust, 63mm on a rear thrust.
So basically, I'm f*cked...
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:23 PM   #4
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Get a mid thrust block and add oil squirters?
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Old 11-12-2018, 05:25 PM   #5
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Get a mid thrust block and add oil squirters?
I already have the Penta block from came the crank but aren't the freeze plugs design on these a little flaky?
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:28 PM   #6
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I have some oddball crank with the larger mains and the center thrust. I have the rear journal welded then machined to be a thrust surface. I haven't run this motor yet.
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Old 11-12-2018, 06:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by poulrais View Post
... but aren't the freeze plugs design on these a little flaky?
Never heard of sketchy freeze plugs being more prominent on Penta engines. If you're worried, what about a freeze plug retainer?
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:00 PM   #8
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I think he's referring to the disc type (Welch) plugs used on earlier blocks. They can be tricky to install correctly.

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Old 11-12-2018, 09:19 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
I think he's referring to the disc type (Welch) plugs used on earlier blocks. They can be tricky to install correctly.

This...

And it's hard to install retainers on these because the flat edge around the plugs are thinner than on the automotive blocks.
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poulrais View Post
I already have the Penta block from came the crank but aren't the freeze plugs design on these a little flaky?
I would think that it's a whole lot easier adding oil squirters onto the Penta block than it is to modify the crank for use in the later automotive block.

My only concern using the Penta block would be to make sure that the block has all the mounting bolt holes that you need for automotive use.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:42 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by quillc View Post
My only concern using the Penta block would be to make sure that the block has all the mounting bolt holes that you need for automotive use.
That's not an issue, they may be so rusted that it may not look like they are tapped, but they are.

My suggestion, run the penta block, and when you start getting power numbers where you're concerned about things like squirters, then do those mods/swaps.

I have a question though, what's the real world difference with center and rear thrust bearings?
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Old 11-16-2018, 08:38 AM   #12
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That's not an issue, they may be so rusted that it may not look like they are tapped, but they are.

My suggestion, run the penta block, and when you start getting power numbers where you're concerned about things like squirters, then do those mods/swaps.

I have a question though, what's the real world difference with center and rear thrust bearings?
I think it's not so much the placement of the main thrust but the size of the mains. 55 mm for the mid thrust engines, 63,5 mm for the rear thrust.

So I found and bought another crank in BC that is rear thrust and well prices. I should get it next Tuesday.

Anyone needs an AQ151a block and crank? The block is in pretty good shape btw so I'll probably post it in the For Sale section this weekend.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:13 AM   #13
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I run a B21 without squirters, good heavens,omfg,SMH, and it hasn't blown up yet, well a few head gaskets here and there but the block has the same amount of holes as when it left the Volvo plant. I think I would have to get new pistons to use that crank wouldn't I? Or is that block taller? What kind of head was on it?
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
I run a B21 without squirters, good heavens,omfg,SMH, and it hasn't blown up yet, well a few head gaskets here and there but the block has the same amount of holes as when it left the Volvo plant. I think I would have to get new pistons to use that crank wouldn't I? Or is that block taller? What kind of head was on it?
I have the Penta pistons that came with that block and they are in very good shape. The block came originally with a 531 head. I may be able to source another 531 head. I don't know how much power the stock Penta rods can take though. They don't look that big. And I rechecked the block's tag and it's an AQ151b. I didn't clean the pistons btw. They came out like this. The oil ring isn't clogged at all.













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Old 11-16-2018, 11:39 AM   #15
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I will do some research, I have another B21 with M rods, need to see if they'll bolt in.
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Old 11-16-2018, 12:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
I will do some research, I have another B21 with M rods, need to see if they'll bolt in.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=24675

From the Penta FAQ:

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Rod / Piston interchange
the AQ151 and AQ171 use the same 152MM long conn rods as the B230 engine, and use a 3MM shorter compression height (wrist pin to piston crown) to compensate for the longer stroke.




Compression
Height
36,7
Combustion Chamber Depth
3,2
Distance Between Bosses
25
Total Length
61,7

Total Length
Pin
23
x
65
R 1,75 Cr
NM 1,75
SSF 3,5
96,01 037 03 00
96 V 18
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Old 11-16-2018, 01:24 PM   #17
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M rods are 146mm, not a bolt in solution. China Bay H beams however should do the trick. I just bought this B21 as a just in case I ventilate my current engine but 2.5L would be nice, I wonder what freights would cost from the great white North? Not gonna fit in a flat rate priority mail envelope but my Dad and his girlfriend travel up there frequently.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
M rods are 146mm, not a bolt in solution. China Bay H beams however should do the trick. I just bought this B21 as a just in case I ventilate my current engine but 2.5L would be nice, I wonder what freights would cost from the great white North? Not gonna fit in a flat rate priority mail envelope but my Dad and his girlfriend travel up there frequently.
I can ask Roger-Dee as he just shipped 2 crates with a T6 and and T5 blocks and heads to Hank Scorpio who's on the West coast I think.

But if your relatives travel over here I could easily meet with them on the US or Canadian side.

If there's anything just shoot me a PM.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:45 PM   #19
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As shown above you can use the B230 rods. To get a stringer stock B230 rod you can use the later version from about 1990 and newer B230.
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:49 PM   #20
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As shown above you can use the B230 rods. To get a stringer stock B230 rod you can use the later version from about 1990 and newer B230.
I have a spare set of 13mm rods from a 1994 B230ft squirter block. You can fit the Penta's stroker pistons to these rods?
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Old 11-16-2018, 02:54 PM   #21
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wrist pins should be the same size. Just the height of the piston was changed for the longer stroke. My understanding is only the crank main journals are the smaller size on the early B230/AQ engines. The rod big ends are all the same size.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:26 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by dl242gt View Post
wrist pins should be the same size. Just the height of the piston was changed for the longer stroke. My understanding is only the crank main journals are the smaller size on the early B230/AQ engines. The rod big ends are all the same size.
I can measure it and report back as I have both cranks on the working table.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussyvolvo View Post
T
I have a question though, what's the real world difference with center and rear thrust bearings?

Good'ay Fred. Real world? You know where you are, dotcha?
Look its like this..
Old Volvos (B18/20, B21/B23,) WERE overbuilt old 1950s designs..
BIG fawkin forged steel cranks bigger than Small Block Chebbys..no sh!t...larger mains and rods, and real steel forged up North at the place they made these:

and they weighd min 16,400g or 16,6 kg..FAWK ME SIDEWAYS!!!! 36 lbs in the old Pommie measure. 2.5" mains!


All that for nearly negative power...The had massive disgusting rods that looked like they were in a diesel eventually called "M" (i reckon for fawkin MASSIVE) which were in fact 145mm long c-c and weighd a minimum of 805g and pistons which could weigh more than that..

So about 15 years after everybody else in the whole fawkin world had made components inside engines lighter, Volvo did the typical "from one extreme to the other thing" and reduced jounals for the mains from 2.5" aka 63,4mm to 55mm and rods journals from 54mm --2.1259" down to 49mm..

Block dims remained as before--all the back to the 1950s B18..Center of crank to deck was 231,7mm ----9.122" Bore spacing as before..
They made some ultra-scary POS soda-straw rods people call "9mm rods" at 152mm c-c
Piston comp hgt went down from the ancient 46 or shoulda been 46,7 mm to a nice 1960s style 39,7mm...(by 1970 most everything had comp hgts of around 40mm and by 1980 most things were hovering around 35mm comp hgt.)

Nothing at all wrong with 55mm..Today that's very common..
Regard ing the thrust bearings.
Decades of keyboard expert injur-nears all repeating sh!t so they fit in with the "In crowd' have all repeated the "Center thrust is BAD!!!!!!!!!" boogie man.
Bollocks.

What's bad is they only gave you thrust bearings in the block half of the journal so you only have 180 thrust and a big leak...

A few seconds on a mill, or a few minutes with a die-grinder and you can make a place for the "tang dealio" that locates the thrust bearing..and add a second thrust bearing in the CAP half of the journal..So simple this was fingered out before even seeing on in person..just talking with a nice fellow who scored a steel marin 55mm main crank for cheap..
He want to use it cause it cost under $50 but was concerned about all the bulldust constantly repeated by "the usual suspects"..
Its simple..there's piccies that some of the boys who listen and did it some years later have posted..

Og B234 is just another 6mm in stroke--and the crank goes UP and DOWN so if it goes UP +3, then comp hgt must go down by around 3
But still same 49mm journal as all B200/B230/B234..

later main bearings were made bigger and thust brg became a 1 pices flanged bearing on No5 journal...No big deal..
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poulrais View Post
I can measure it and report back as I have both cranks on the working table.
23mm pins on all B200/B230/B234

39,7 comp hgt B200/B230

36,7 B234

all with 152mm rods.
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Old 11-16-2018, 07:52 PM   #25
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I have a spare set of 13mm rods from a 1994 B230ft squirter block. You can fit the Penta's stroker pistons to these rods?
Penta 151 use the same 152mm rods as automotive b230s. The pistons are shorter and would need to be used with that penta 2.5l crank
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