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Another thread about pinging on LH 2.4, 16T edition

PromiseRing said:
Does anyone actually use amsoil aside from motorend on their engine masters series? **** I don't think I've even seen it in stores.
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They have it at Rural King down here in the sticks. I run it in my wagon, not a big expense since I change the oil maybe twice a year.
 
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muppetman342 said:
Another issue is my crap idle, not sure if it's related. But I've done boost-leak tests, replaced ignition components, and verified sensors in search of the idle issue but to no avail, so maybe I have a lazy injector or something.
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What is "crap idle" to you?

I was under the impression that 10 PSI on a +T is on the high side on even a well sorted setup. We're still talking about nearly 10:1 static CR here. :e-shrug:
 
Uncleknucklez said:
What is "crap idle" to you?

I was under the impression that 10 PSI on a +T is on the high side on even a well sorted setup. We're still talking about nearly 10:1 static CR here. :e-shrug:
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People have put down WAY more than 10 psi on a 9.8:1 motor. Not me though. I get pinging as well. Maybe you can tune around it, maybe some people experience it and some don't? It's annoying though.
 
PromiseRing said:
People have put down WAY more than 10 psi on a 9.8:1 motor. Not me though. I get pinging as well. Maybe you can tune around it, maybe some people experience it and some don't? It's annoying though.
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I supposed I did a bad job of making thoughts clear. I was more talking about LH24, than anything. With chips, stockish injectors, on a motor that is 9.8:1, people are getting away with more than 10 psi? I don't know much about +T, but those numbers don't really add up to a good time to me.
 
PromiseRing said:
People have put down WAY more than 10 psi on a 9.8:1 motor. Not me though. I get pinging as well. Maybe you can tune around it, maybe some people experience it and some don't? It's annoying though.
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Sure, but they often have to run good 94 octane gas, retard the timing to the point added power comes at a very high price, and have to tune it as a completely custom deal at the unforgiving ragged edge and most of those examples don't last very long either (months, not decades).

I'd wager that all of those cars with the avg hooped out +T on LH efi don't last worth a crap, and/or have to run in ideal weather conditions and/or have to run on ideal fuel and/or have a ton of other compromises for fuel economy and/or drivability.

As said before, even a stock B230F in perfect repair will ping a little bit (on shifts or rapid transitions or whatever) on average 87 gas in 100?F heat. And they're tuned pretty conservatively to last at least a decade from new at minimum should avg joe get a marginal tank of 87 gas in a Fully loaded up car on a very hot day.

What do you guys expect?
 
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I do appreciate the perspective here guys. I guess I wasn't fairly comparing my situation against guys running more boost.

So moving forward I'm planning on rebuilding a B230F, guess I should opt for turbo pistons for the lower CR.
 
Or just get a low mile decently healthy B230FT for dirt cheap and call it a day?

What's all this talk of "rebuild" and "restore" these days? Lulz.

You guys all outta lowish leak down 93-95 940T to yank the motor out of before crush?
 
Kjets On a Plane said:
Sure, but they often have to run good 94 octane gas, retard the timing to the point added power comes at a very high price, and have to tune it as a completely custom deal at the unforgiving ragged edge and most of those examples don't last very long either (months, not decades).

I'd wager that all of those cars with the avg hooped out +T on LH efi don't last worth a crap, and/or have to run in ideal weather conditions and/or have to run on ideal fuel and/or have a ton of other compromises for fuel economy and/or drivability.

As said before, even a stock B230F in perfect repair will ping a little bit (on shifts or rapid transitions or whatever) on average 87 gas in 100?F heat. And they're tuned pretty conservatively to last at least a decade from new at minimum should avg joe get a marginal tank of 87 gas in a Fully loaded up car on a very hot day.

What do you guys expect?
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So what, are the redblocks just **** past stock unless you sink in a LOT of money in tuning/fuel etc?:e-shrug: damn you swedes why couldn't you use a pent style chamber and small bore like the japs do!!!

Yet we still insist on driving them.

I've never heard the wagon (na) ping, no matter how hot. Either it isn't severe enough to hear or it's not happening. I tend to keep revs at 2500-3000 for this reason exactly. I'd rather rev high with low load than vice versa.

With the +t I've been lucky with reliability but I baby it a lot. Try to not even boost it in this 100 degree weather. I'm sure it wouldn't be happy. The damn thing pings in winter at 10psi too. Bone stock LH. I'm wondering if 8.7:1 pistons really make that much of a difference in anti knock characteristics. I'm always too scared to abuse my car, in trying to keep the rods in the motor. After all, it's still a daily.
 
It's funny I never had these issues with any of my cars running bigger turbos, high heat, high low rpm cylinder pressures is what kills these stock +t bottom ends in my experience. When you move the power band/rpms up the engine tends to be under alot less stress.
 
cosbySweater said:
It's funny I never had these issues with any of my cars running bigger turbos, high heat, high low rpm cylinder pressures is what kills these stock +t bottom ends in my experience. When you move the power band/rpms up the engine tends to be under alot less stress.
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Not being a smartass but would you mind adding periods where necessary so I can see what you were trying to say? Also any of them 9.8:1 motors or factory turbo 8.7:1 motors.
 
Both. Had no issues running either. the ft blocks are better with stock ems and a smaller turbo but still not ideal if you have a engine with buildup on the head or pistons.
 
cosbySweater said:
Both. Had no issues running either. the ft blocks are better with stock ems and a smaller turbo but still not ideal if you have a engine with buildup on the head or pistons.
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So how did you stay away from knock on the 9.8 motors? Mine is a stock bottom end f+t. 13c at 10psi (some knock, depends on the day), iPd cam, 2.5" exhaust, eBay FMIC that seems to do a better job than stock even though it's much smaller. Stock lh2.4...I think that's it. If I were to want to turn it up to like 15psi it would ping its ass off. Only done that once.

Injectors are the white bodied turbo ones I think like 330cc/min? Running at 3 bar.
 
PromiseRing said:
So what, are the redblocks just **** past stock unless you sink in a LOT of money in tuning/fuel etc?:e-shrug: damn you swedes why couldn't you use a pent style chamber and small bore like the japs do!!!

Yet we still insist on driving them.

I've never heard the wagon (na) ping, no matter how hot. Either it isn't severe enough to hear or it's not happening. I tend to keep revs at 2500-3000 for this reason exactly. I'd rather rev high with low load than vice versa.

With the +t I've been lucky with reliability but I baby it a lot. Try to not even boost it in this 100 degree weather. I'm sure it wouldn't be happy. The damn thing pings in winter at 10psi too. Bone stock LH. I'm wondering if 8.7:1 pistons really make that much of a difference in anti knock characteristics. I'm always too scared to abuse my car, in trying to keep the rods in the motor. After all, it's still a daily.
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With stock EMS, and generally, they're kinda junk as a hot-rod platform by today's (or kinda even late 80s/early 90s) standards...

IDK why anyone messes with them (even healthy FT versions) past ~250-300hp for something vaguely pleasant and street able...
 
I always ran bigger turbos. Also if you are on lh and have some e85 in the area try splashing a few gallons in. Tlao chips do help but with my experience a little rattle would always occur with the smaller turbo, the exhaust housing is also a huge bottle neck on the td04s back pressure is not your friend
 
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