home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2019, 09:48 AM   #1
paulcurran
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Mahle B230-B230ft pistons

Are the Mahle B230f pistons and the B230 ft pistons all made of the same material? Are they all cast? Do all the red blocks all come from Volvo with Mahle pistons? Which would be a better pick for a street turbo motor rebuild if I ever get that far?
paulcurran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2019, 01:20 PM   #2
iHateVolvoPeople
Lord_Athlons daddy
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Midwest
Default

I can’t answer most of your questions, but my ignorant advice would be to opt for the F pistons (or something of the like) with the higher compression for a street car. It will respond much better than the 8.7:1 FT pistons. Just my experience.

IIRC, all the stock pistons were cast..I think. Except for maybe the earlier turbo engines? B23FT/ET according to a quick search we’re the only forged pistons offered for redblocks from the factory. And they were made by mahle.
__________________
Feedback Thread
Current:
93' 244T M47
93' 245 M47
90' 744 AW70
94' M-Edition Miata 5 speed, 93k
95' Camry A140E, 246k
91' 745 Regina AW701, maybe future turbo project
99' Camry A140E. Admittedly the newest car I’ve ever owned.
Past (Volvos):
80' 242gt M46
88' 245T M47
92' 945T AW71
94' 945T AW71
90' 745T AW71 (Donor car for the 91)
90' 745 NA sold
93' 945T in burgundy




People think Volvos are good cars until they drive cars that are actually good.
iHateVolvoPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2019, 05:15 PM   #3
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

The pistons are all cast with the one exception mentioned above. I would ask you what are your goals with a street turbo engine? Are you looking for mileage with some power or some power with a bit of mileage?

Your fuel economy will be better with the F pistons but with lots of boost your are running closer to the limit of knock. Modest boost pressures are a good way to keep a +T rolling.
The FT pistons will give you more boost before knock limits and if you are wanting the boosted power then this is what you would want in my opinion. If you use a fast spooling turbo like the mitsubishi ones then the lower compression won't really have any bad turbo lag.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2019, 07:12 PM   #4
vwbusman66
Eisen-Stein
 
vwbusman66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Kingsville, MD/Morgantown, WV/Your mom's house
Default

Where are you planning on sourcing them? I just looked for NA pistons and FCP, Amazon, eBay, and IPD don't stock them.
vwbusman66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2019, 08:11 PM   #5
paulcurran
Board Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Mahle pistons

I'm on the side of mileage with some power. I have a rebuilt 16T turbo, Kl turbo cam, hopefully a 3 in. exhaust, white injectors, Mikes chips. Car will be daily driver with aw71. I inherited a partial set of new stock bore b230 pistons. 4 pistons but only 2 pins & 2 pair of clips. I think the decision will come down to whether the stock bores in the b230ft engine I picked up are good enough. Engine is under 100k miles but is a 91 without squirters. Head is still on it, so don't know yet.
What kind of boost is safe to run with F pistons & 16T with mods?
paulcurran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2019, 09:30 PM   #6
dl242gt
Happy playing the blues
 
dl242gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: S NJ, a suburb of Phila.
Default

With a better intercooler than the Volvo one it would also help a lot. I would contact Mike since he probably knows the design limits of the programming in the chips. From your description even something modest like 10-12 psi would be a lot of fun and give you a good service life.
dl242gt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2019, 09:49 PM   #7
2turbotoys
Salaminizer
 
2turbotoys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Reading pa
Default

I put a new set of stock Mahle pistons in the last B230FT I built, I was pretty impressed with the quality. Put a piston, wrist pin, and retainers on a digital scale, all 4 were exactly the same down to 0.000, the limit of my scale. We didn't even have to gap the rings, we did check them but they needed nothing.
Car was running a T3/T04E 50mm Garrett (with supporting mods) at 15 PSI
__________________
Feedback thread https://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=144924

1978 242, getting prepped for LS
1979 242, MS, R brakes
2006 V50 T5 AWD @ 17 PSI
2turbotoys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 02:04 AM   #8
OttoB
Board Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: E(Seattle!Vancouver! San Francisco!LA!) Helsinski
Default

B230 pistons are cast, but different material/method than B21/B23 pistons were made. Nowdays if you order new pistons they are made with this modern technology. At least my B30 pistons were.
B19ET had Kolbenschmidt pistons, all others were Mahle.
OttoB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 11:05 AM   #9
quillc
yv1a.com
 
quillc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Kitsap, Wa
Default

All of the Volvo pistons are either cast or forged. To my knowledge B21/23 pistons were all forged, B230 pistons were all cast. All of the pistons are aluminum.

Mahle was the OEM supplier of pistons for Volvo.

Pistons you buy today are cast - unless they specifically say 'forged'. You can easily get either.

Cast pistons work fine for 99.9% of our applications. High power applications would require forged for the additional strength. If you are building a 'fun' motor that isn't a 'max effort' motor, cast would be fine for you. Essentially, if you are 300 hp or less on these motors the cast pistons seem to work fine.

Cast pistons are dimensionally more stable than forged. Forged pistons expand a lot more than cast. This is why most OE suppliers use cast pistons in their applications (besides forged pistons cost more).

In the end its up to you and your wallet. Overkill is consistently more fun however, so I'm a fan of forged pistons...
__________________
Chris
www.yv1a.com
quillc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 02:14 PM   #10
John V, outside agitator
Board Member
 
John V, outside agitator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sleezattle, WA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quillc View Post
All of the Volvo pistons are either cast or forged. To my knowledge B21/23 pistons were all forged, B230 pistons were all cast. All of the pistons are aluminum.

Mahle was the OEM supplier of pistons for Volvo.

.
Only a very few turbo B23 had forged pistons.. very few..Bought a couple of core B23T for rebuilding and oddly one had forged pistons but the crank was cast iron..Never saw one of those before..

The bit about temp stability..Numbers help understand why something is important or just "true but insignificant"..Book spec for piston to cylinder clearance for cast Mahles in the size range---and there is no special material that has been change or "technology" (Part of the contract for supplying stuff as an OEM supplier is that the aftermarket replacement parts IF they are to be called "Vollvo" or whatever parts MUST be done to the exact spec of the original contract..materials all design*) is 0.0012 ish...The OEM forged Mahles the Volvo and Lima Ford and that other Ford that makes fan-bois go insane if mentioned is about 0.0018-.002" and aftermarket good pistons .003-.004 for hard turbo use...

So the difference is from .0006 --6 ten thousandths to at maximum .0022", less than a sheet of paper..

And that's cold, after warm up its the same...
__________________
John Vanlandingham/JVAB Imports
Sleezattle WA, USA

--> CALL (206) 431-9696<----

www.rallyrace.net/jvab

www.rallyanarchy.com

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

"When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him: 'Whose?'"
— Don Marquis
John V, outside agitator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 11:17 AM   #11
mikep
The MP
 
mikep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: 38° 27' N 75° 29' W
Default

I have only seen cast pistons from mahle (B23/230/ft), and have only seen 1 or 2 cast B23 cranks.
I have a set of B230FT pistons I should sell. 96.010
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lando View Post
This shit belongs in the virtue signaling thread. Let’s go back to talking about nazis.
mikep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 12:10 PM   #12
culberro
Ronald Culberbone III
 
culberro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
I have a set of B230FT pistons I should sell. 96.010
You don't say.... Interested.
__________________
Cult Person. Pissing in your Kool-Aid.
culberro is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2019, 11:30 AM   #13
freevolvos
Board Member
 
freevolvos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: hillpoint
Default

Your best bet aftermarket forged...I personally don't care for the hyper alloy slugs,I think they're brittle I prefer cast over them.I've used factory cast pistons worth 300 hit in a big block chevy proper tuning is a must just my two cents
freevolvos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2019, 01:50 PM   #14
towerymt
the real Towery
 
towerymt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: VA, USA
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikep View Post
I have only seen cast pistons from mahle (B23/230/ft)...
You saw my Mahle pistons...they were forged...

towerymt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2019, 03:33 PM   #15
twowheeledlife
Board Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Texas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by towerymt View Post
You saw my Mahle pistons...they were forged...

What model Mahle pistons did you end up using here?
twowheeledlife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2019, 06:19 PM   #16
Dirty Rick
Board Member
 
Dirty Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cornholio, OR
Default

Another issue with the pistons Mahle offers is weight.
The B230-FT pistons available are cast and they are BRICKS! 700+grams (715?)for the complete piston package!
The wrist pin supplied is large diameter (23mm) and very thick soft material, not a performance pin by any name.
The pins look like a diesel pin, but show premature wear due to the soft material.
I'm thinking something more like 450-500 grams for the whole package (pin & rings & retainers).

How much crisper would a RedBlock be loosing 200G per piston???!!! No re-balancing needed, because 4 cyl inline...

I am looking at using a Diamond piston they have a turbo piston for a LS motor that is rated for 2000hp (LS2k).
http://blog.diamondracing.net/diamond-ls2k
I am looking at using that piston downsized for a redblock and use the longer 158mm H-beam rods.

But still hoping for an off the shelf solution for a forged piston.....
Open for suggestions

The Mahle cast pistons held up well in this motor, I pulled apart due to noise problems which turned out to be carbon knock.
Under 10k miles of which half was at full throttle (fixing boost control and fueling issues).
I could reassemble the motor after cleaning but someone calling themselves a machinist opened up the pin clearence in the rods and pistons to .002"
And I don't feel right about that.
I pushed the bushings out of the rods to replace them and found they are a non-standard size, and the Chiwan rods were machined really poorly (rough high feed rate finish) under the bushing so they need to be honed first to properly hold the new bushings then hone the bushings to size and by the time I've done that I could buy a new set of rods.
So if I'm buying new rods I'd prefer to use a longer rod with a lighter piston and have a much better package.
__________________
I don't know who I am when I am somebody else.

Last edited by Dirty Rick; 09-03-2019 at 06:34 PM..
Dirty Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.