Innovate LC-2 Wideband Controller

nathaninwa said:

Time for an aem, no more free air calibration and I like that it outputs a 14 ish afr while hearing up instead of full rich or lean

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Be careful with that statement about no free air calibration! Most (all?) vendors of wide band controllers that tout 'no calibration' are using the precision resistor feature in the Bosch LSU sensor. Every vendor, including AEM's X series, that I have checked in to, which is not all vendors, has some fine print words in their application guides which says things like the sensor can be free air calibrated 'if the user desires when the sensor ages'. Some of the vendors are a little more up front and come out and say that the sensor should/must go through a free air recalibration with a specific time interval based upon end use.

So yes, the AEM and some other vendors will allow you to dodge the initial free air calibration. If you want to maintain the accuracy of measurement without redoing the free air calibration, then you will need to buy a new sensor every month - year (depending on end use and accuracy requirements).

What does Subaru make you do every month to year? The Impreza sensor is the 4.2 that use widely used

nathaninwa said:

What does Subaru make you do every month to year? The Impreza sensor is the 4.2 that use widely used

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Funny you mention that. My 5 year old, 50k mile 4.2 sensor out of a 1.8t Jetta on my ZT2 still holds up to 1% accuracy against our test equipment at work.

But yeah, you definitely have to free-air calibrate with quality controllers[/sarcasm]

I don't see anything about free air calibrating in the Ford Coyote engine controls documentation either. We probably better go tell the OEM's they're doing it wrong.

Funny how hit or miss the Innovate stuff is. The LC1 in my 140 is going on 30k over 10 years, never had an issue. The LC1 in my wagon, junk from the get-go. The LC2 is sitting around 30k on it, with some severe abuse between heat, E85, super rich mixtures, still runs happy on the original sensor.

Merely pointing out that a number of aftermarket vendors of wideband controllers who offer up 'no calibration required ' suggest or recommend periodic free air recalibration of the sensor. The calibration issue doesn't say anything about the quality of the controller and certainly says nothing about any issues that may exist with different strategies that exist for control of the sensor heater.

OEMs using wide bands have sufficient application data and control over the installation to guarantee that the sensor will function for the period required by the EPA / CARB / whoever without calibration. Aftermarket vendors don't have any control over the application of their product, hence the boiler plate about recalibration.

I guess in the end, In my network of friends I'm the one to test out new products and have others follow suit. I'll never buy any innovate product or 14.7 product, and so none of my friends will. I can say there is about 20 AEM widebands in the group and none of us are having issues, and still the random guys that dyno have consistent results year to year

It seams there are a thread on LCx widebands about every two months That's all

nathaninwa said:

I guess in the end, In my network of friends I'm the one to test out new products and have others follow suit. I'll never buy any innovate product or 14.7 product, and so none of my friends will. I can say there is about 20 AEM widebands in the group and none of us are having issues, and still the random guys that dyno have consistent results year to year

It seams there are a thread on LCx widebands about every two months That's all

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Ive tried them all except the 14.7 and Aem was the only one that worked the best of for the longest and its still going strong in Nathans car.

Zeitronix sack rider here, personally. Mainly because all of us OG SoCal DSM crew have known the guy since he started the "affordable" WB02 game before most people on this forum were born. Sort of helps when the guy developing the product for nearly two decades had the same application data OEM's had before that even became a "thing".

That said, the few times I've used the AEM it's the only thing that has come close. Haven't used one in the dyno cell yet to compare against our equipment. Never felt the need. It's worked just as reliable as the ZT stuff.

I haven't dealt with any of the recent 14.7 stuff. Had one of his old DIY kits that was solid until firmware screwed it up. Rather unfortunate since he seems to be the only one that offers multi-channel CANbus stuff aimed towards MS.

My 10 year old low mileage high temperature LC1/4.2 is still going strong and seemingly accurate. But they ARE known for both killing sensors, rejecting sensors, and some reliability issues depending on when you got yours.

LC2 is a different kettle of rotten fish. Never would I ever consider using a newer Innovate product. Apparently the guy that designed the LC1 left the company and they didn't know how to stitch designs together properly and cocked it up completely in those newer ones. They've just released something new that claims to beat all of those issues, but I don't think I could trust them again.

I also have a 14point7 4.2 device that's going strong 3 years on with oil ring issues and rich tunes and lean high EGT tunes and firmware dev and skids etc. NA engine, though, so not super ruthless on the sensor itself. Also accurate, and no cal required.

Personally I'd only use 14point7/Alan's gear. His weaknesses are shipping and communications. The engineering is sound. The readings are precise and fast. He knows his **** well better than most. And his prices are super sharp. If you know what you're doing, order a bit early, and are patient, it's a good option IMO.

The newest AEM stuff seems promising, but the price is high, and the business antics of some of their staff are iffy IMO.

nathaninwa said:

I've read elsewhere that innovate still has not gotten the heater function working that great in there controllers. I'd kick it down the street and buy a different brand

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Agreed.. I'm using the newer Spartan 2 lambda controller. MY idle AFR is much steadier than with the LC-1. IMO its great for the $...

I'm subribed to Denmahs, sloppy mechanics YouTube page and yesterday's post I found interesting The first five minutes or so talks about his issues with innovate and more real world data

https://youtu.be/eQluE_gyTNY

I've been having some really odd behavior from the Innovate MTX-L I have. It is very unsteady, and randomly started to read 16:1 AFR while under load a while back. Checked for exhaust leaks and found nothing. Then about 2 hours later it started reading "normal". This is on a na 16v with a uS. Definitely not inspiring confidence...
I'll probably pick up a AEM Digital wideband and see if there's a major difference with the tune. If not, then I have a spare wideband for the next project.