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Old 02-24-2007, 02:27 AM   #1
mymomswagon
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Default blue "R" injectors

Is anyone running these injectors with motronic or LH computers? If so does it require any modification? What's the impedence of these injectors? How do they compare to bt's and gt's? I think the "R" injectors flow 391cc's. They come in the s60r. Isn't a resistor required when running the bt's with these fuel systms?
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Old 02-24-2007, 03:37 AM   #2
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they fit and run as is. aren't they 391cc at 3.8bar though not 3 bar. not sure.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:33 AM   #3
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They're high impedance so you need to bypass the resistor pack with something that looks like this



The pic belongs to Boris (the knocksense guy) so credit where it's due etc.
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Old 02-24-2007, 08:51 AM   #4
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S60R injectors are green and flow 465cc. The blue injectors are off of 99+ T5 motors and flow 395cc.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 242GTMD View Post
S60R injectors are green and flow 465cc. The blue injectors are off of 99+ T5 motors and flow 395cc.
can anyone give me also the Bosch or Volvo Part number from the inj. above, just to be sure to have the right injectors ...

Is there a list out there, which lists injectors, flow and part numbers?
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by stoni View Post
can anyone give me also the Bosch or Volvo Part number from the inj. above, just to be sure to have the right injectors ...

Is there a list out there, which lists injectors, flow and part numbers?
Bosch "Green giants", 42lb/hr, 0280155968
Bosch "Green Tops", 42lb/hr, 0280150558

I can´t find the p/n for the blue injectors, but they do flow 395cc/min.
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
42lb/hr
= 465cc/min ?

you know, european ... ;)
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoni View Post
can anyone give me also the Bosch or Volvo Part number from the inj. above, just to be sure to have the right injectors ...

Is there a list out there, which lists injectors, flow and part numbers?
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm
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Old 02-24-2007, 05:55 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by v40jlt4 View Post
mh, strange ....

Fred wrote, the Green Gaints 280-968 are 42lb/hr,
the list says 29.5 lb/hr 310cc/min for the same injectors....
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Old 02-24-2007, 06:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoni View Post
= 465cc/min ?

you know, european ... ;)
Oh yeah, sorry...

42lb/hr = 440cc/min

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoni View Post
mh, strange ....

Fred wrote, the Green Gaints 280-968 are 42lb/hr,
the list says 29.5 lb/hr 310cc/min for the same injectors....
Yeah, that is strange...
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Old 02-24-2007, 07:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
Bosch "Green giants", 42lb/hr, 0280155968
Bosch "Green Tops", 42lb/hr, 0280150558

I can´t find the p/n for the blue injectors, but they do flow 395cc/min.
look at this:

http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/pr...ad.php?t=26083

the blue one has the number 0280155830, problem is the 3,8bar pressure.

If i raise the pressure from 3 to 3.8 bar with the normal 310cc green tops from the FT i will get also 392cc/min. I need inj. which provides 390-410cc with 3 bar.
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Old 02-24-2007, 07:08 PM   #12
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The 0280150402 CFI injectors will flow 390cc/min @ 3bar.
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Old 02-24-2007, 08:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
The 0280150402 CFI injectors will flow 390cc/min @ 3bar.
ok, found this here, a great paper:

http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=de

This list confirms the flow of 391cc/min of the 0280155830 blue R Injector.
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:59 AM   #14
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bought on ebay the following injectors: 0280 156 063 - 393cc/min

The injectors are from these cars:

AUDI S3 TT 225PS
VW VR6
VW 1.8T TURBO

They are micro inj., 4-beam type, to fit them i must rebuild the Injector rail. Since i want to drive my turbo with E85, the 4-beam inj. will help hopefully with my cold-start issue on E85.

http://www.nord-com.net/stoni/images/inj_spray1.JPG
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoni View Post
look at this:
If i raise the pressure from 3 to 3.8 bar with the normal 310cc green tops from the FT i will get also 392cc/min. I need inj. which provides 390-410cc with 3 bar.
probably not. Bernoulli's law.

p = .5 * rho * velocity^2

increase the pressure with factor x, the velocity increases with x^0.5.
Velocity * area = volume flow.
doubling the pressure will give 2^0.5 = 1.41 times as much fuel. Theoretically.

I dunno if efi injectors follow this rule exactly (because of the internal valve etc), but oil nozzles do.
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:53 AM   #16
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calculations would say that a 310cc at 3bar injector raised to 3.8bar would flow about 355-360CC
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Old 02-26-2007, 07:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JW240 View Post
probably not. Bernoulli's law.

p = .5 * rho * velocity^2

increase the pressure with factor x, the velocity increases with x^0.5.
Velocity * area = volume flow.
doubling the pressure will give 2^0.5 = 1.41 times as much fuel. Theoretically.

I dunno if efi injectors follow this rule exactly (because of the internal valve etc), but oil nozzles do.

Yeah guys, you're right - was only babbled without correct data ...
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:35 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by stoni View Post
bought on ebay the following injectors: 0280 156 063 - 393cc/min

The injectors are from these cars:

AUDI S3 TT 225PS
VW VR6
VW 1.8T TURBO

They are micro inj., 4-beam type, to fit them i must rebuild the Injector rail. Since i want to drive my turbo with E85, the 4-beam inj. will help hopefully with my cold-start issue on E85.

http://www.nord-com.net/stoni/images/inj_spray1.JPG
I have a lot of experience with swapping injectors for the S2 and S4 ones, which are great injectors.

If you are going to use 4-beam injectors, you have to listen to me. To be able to get the same performance out of all of them, you need to have all the connectors on the injectors pointing straight up from the intake manifold. You can´t turn the injectors because the cables/connectors are easier to hook up without any tension in the cables. The connectors must all face up.

If they don´t, the beams will be aimed differently and you will get different results on every cylinder.

On the S2/S3/S4 the injectors are held at the same position, pointing straight up, by a plastic frame so that all the injectors will be aimed at the intake valves.

Those injectors work great. Very good beam and atomisation.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:36 AM   #19
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Revised...

Last edited by frpe82; 02-26-2007 at 05:25 PM..
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:34 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
Hmmm... now when looking at the numbers I can see that Bosch number is the stock VW 1.8T injectors. Those are only 300cc/min @ 3bar (347cc/min @4bar).
Fred, don't make me crazy ....., i've looked in more than one list, on several ebay tasks, all are telling these inj. are 380cc/min, my new found list says they have flow tested the inj. with 393cc/min .....
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Old 02-26-2007, 05:24 PM   #21
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Fred, don't make me crazy ....., i've looked in more than one list, on several ebay tasks, all are telling these inj. are 380cc/min, my new found list says they have flow tested the inj. with 393cc/min .....
I have to revise what I said before...

I have looked at all the lists available, and the results for the 0 280 156 063 injectors is this:

This page says that those injectors flow 269g/min @ 3bar: http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=de

According to this, the injectors should flow 269/0.75 = 359cc/min @ 3bar

And this page says that the injectors flow 347cc/min @ 3bar: http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

So the flow should be around 347-359cc/min @ 3bar for the injectors you have bought.

And in my experience with the 1.8T engines, and as far as I can remeber, the 1.8T injectors came in three versions (flow taken from memory):

~270cc/min @ 3bar (runs at 4bar in all the VAG engines)
~300cc/min @ 3bar (runs at 4bar in all the VAG engines)
~350cc/min @ 3bar (runs at 4bar in all the VAG engines)


If you run the injectors you have bought at 4bar, the flow would be ~410cc/min.



And regarding the injector "pointing" issue:
What I meant was that the connectors on the injectors should all face straight up from the engine, or else the spray pattern will not be aimed towards the intake valves. The injectors can not lean towards any direction, and this is why all the Audi's have a plastic frame that holds all the injectors in a certain position.

ADDITION:// When you have installed the injectors, they will not move around. They usually sit still.

Last edited by frpe82; 02-26-2007 at 05:38 PM..
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Old 03-01-2007, 04:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frpe82 View Post
And in my experience with the 1.8T engines, and as far as I can remeber, the 1.8T injectors came in three versions (flow taken from memory):

~270cc/min @ 3bar (runs at 4bar in all the VAG engines)
~300cc/min @ 3bar (runs at 4bar in all the VAG engines)
~350cc/min @ 3bar (runs at 4bar in all the VAG engines)
Funny how I found this. Was looking up information for OEM fuel injector specs for this "0 280 156 063" injector. If I remember right it comes of the 225hp audi TT (european version) and the Audi S3 and I believe the Seat Cupra R. I'm not 100% sure if it's a 364cc/min like its counter part here in the US.

The 1.8t only has 3 injectors, the main one is a
317cc/min at 3 bar. All 1.8t engines (except for the audi and passat engines and the 225hp Audi TT)
364cc/min at 3 bar. (225 hp audi TT and the ones stated above)

I can't recall what the audi/passat 1.8t engine has and I think the VW beetle 1.8t engine has a weaker injector I can't recall what it is but it's not worth it

One thing you missed about the injectors you spec'ed on that one page is that it's listed as Statisk kapacitet(100% duty cycle)g/min(n-heptan) @3bar. N-heptan has a different density than gasoline. N-Heptane has a density of 679.5kg/m^3, vs. gasoline's 737.22kg/m^3

unless somebody did the that conversion...
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Old 03-01-2007, 05:17 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxp View Post
0 280 156 063" injector / I'm not 100% sure if it's a 364cc/min like its counter part here in the US.
Yes, it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxp View Post
One thing you missed about the injectors you spec'ed on that one page is that it's listed as Statisk kapacitet(100% duty cycle)g/min(n-heptan) @3bar. N-heptan has a different density than gasoline. N-Heptane has a density of 679.5kg/m^3, vs. gasoline's 737.22kg/m^3

unless somebody did the that conversion...
We did the conversion with a density of 0.72 (dont knew the exact value since now, thanks to you), but if you use a density of 737.22 than you have exactly the flow from 364cc/min (listvalue: 269g/min:0.73722=264cc/min )
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