B20 Timing Gear Question

B30 camshaft and gear

Thanks everyone!

I think my cam lobes may be worn and I am going to try the K grind cam that I purchased.

Based on what everyone said I will go for the steel cam gear set.

I did not know that the followers can be removed without pulling the head. That helps a lot. Can I use a magnetic probe for that or do I need a special tool to grab them?

I am lucky to have a B30E Euro spec. with the M410, so I am hoping the K grind livens it up more.

I am trying to buy everything I need. I get the sense that all the 164-specific stuff is being discontinued. It is fortunate that the B30 is just a stretched B20.

Thanks again.

Some of the parts as I mentioned are getting hard to find like new steel timing gears , but so far I have been able to source just about everything mechanical for my customers including the B30 parts that are different from the B18/B20 engines.

I have never tried to change lifters in a B18/B20/B30 without removing the head and I have been working on old Volvos for over 30 years. I would like to hear or see how it is done. I wonder if someone is thinking about the B16 Volvo engines as those engines have 2 removable stamped sheet metal plates on the side of the engine through which the lifters can be removed.

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Mark always drew that short straw at the Volvo shop back in '87...
He sure did get the followers out of B-20's and B-30's without pulling the head.

Of course as easily as it comes off.... Why fight with it?

I got to do the Frenchie V-6 repairs...

Got them out as in was able to replace them with new ones? I really can't see that happening. Perhaps reaching down through the small pushrod hole to grab the lifter and pull it up and out of the bore to allow replacement of a cam without replacing the lifter, but that's not a very good practice.

It's hard enough to fish them out of their bores on an older engine (crud built up on the bottom end of the lifter that has to fit through the bore) or engines with a flattened lobe (often mushrooms the lifter slightly). But there's simply not any way to physically remove them from the engine with the head on.

Well, perhaps lifting them all up, removing the cam, then letting them all fall into the oil pan, removing the oil pan, and somehow fitting new lifters in from below. Really starting to be arthroscopic surgery at that point.

OE steel are much better than the Cloyes things. I'd rather have good used matched OE steel. The aluminum one fails worse than the fiber (breaks the crankshaft) fiber at least it usually just eats a tooth or gets so loose and worn it won't run/runs poorly/backfires and quits.

The aluminum gears break the CRANKshaft? Do you mean camshaft?

Either way, I'm having a hard time picturing how any kind of cam or crank gearset could, alone, break a crank or a cam. I've heard of cams that were fitted with steel gears breaking but I haven't seen such a failure myself. Those failures, I'm told, were symptoms of other, more substantial, problems and not named as the cause.

I broke some steel gears a few years ago, but I believe that they broke after some other metal things broke and got in between the gears themselves. That is, I think the broken gears were a symptom and not the cause.

I've used aluminum gears in a number of engines without any problem (knock on wood).

My first choice would also be OE steel. If you can elaborate on the problems with the Cloyes, I'm certainly interested.

Cameron
Portland

volvorelix said:

I've used aluminum gears in a number of engines without any problem (knock on wood).

My first choice would also be OE steel. If you can elaborate on the problems with the Cloyes, I'm certainly interested.

Cameron
Portland

Click to expand...

Samples of one are terrible - but here's my experience with the Cloyes product. I know that many many sets have delivered hundreds of thousands to trouble free miles of operation, but my only experience led to not making it past start up.

I bought a set in 2006 when I first got my 122 and it had a separated fibre gear. I replaced the originals with the Cloyes set and I thought something was a bit amiss when the cam gear seemed very tight going on. It went on, but was tight - like no back lash tight. I turned the engine over by hand and it all seemed to work, so I buttoned it up and lit the fire on the thing...then bang - that aluminum gear was gone.

Took it all apart and called Cloyes - it was just a manufacture error (sort of like the 16 MTC lifters that I've got that are far too small for the lifter bores) - it happens. They refunded my purchase price. I was stupid for not pulling it out when it clearly had no lash.

Again, sample of ONE - not saying anything other than a fluke made this happen, but I - like you - always run steel in engines that I build. They're not that noisy or annoying and are as durable as anything and Ken's got a set for sale right now.

A friend got one of the Cloyes sets last year, helped with the install, far from impressed, ended up damaging it trying to get the steel gear onto the crank, let alone the alum side. Gotta heat up both gears just to install them. Decided against going further since a few teeth had been damaged by the rubber mallet used to aid install, got a steel set, car has been happy since, with install going MUCH easier.

Sounds like their QC hasn't been consistent. I put Cloyes gears onto a B20 last week and didn't have any issue getting them into place. No heat, and no more force than any other timing gear install I can think of.

Not encouraging that so many competent builders have had so many different problems with them. I have a couple sets on hand and will continue to/attempt to use them in the future. I guess I've been lucky so far... and I'm now suspicious of the sets that are in stock...

Cameron
Portland

Ok, this is an old thread but gear noise was mentioned a few times. To those with experience installing steel gear sets, are they really noisy? I mean like a giant supercharger? I?ve installed aluminum and steel sets and the aluminum cam gear noise was fine. This steel set? Unbearable. Maybe if it accompanied 500hp.

I've got steel in mine, don't notice it really unless you listen really close.

FrankBooth said:

Ok, this is an old thread but gear noise was mentioned a few times. To those with experience installing steel gear sets, are they really noisy? I mean like a giant supercharger? I?ve installed aluminum and steel sets and the aluminum cam gear noise was fine. This steel set? Unbearable. Maybe if it accompanied 500hp.

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I had steel in my B20. Valve tappet/lifter noise (when not set really tight) was the only thing I noticed. Then again, it had a very free flowing exhaust by the time I was done. (3 chamber Delta style flowMaster -- basically did nothing but cut the high frequencies by almost nothing.)

I can't really hear any noise from the steel gears in mine. Of course, the DCOE's make noise up front and the exhaust makes noise out the back, but I really don't hear any gear noises.

Has anyone used a Cloyes aluminum set as of late?

Ok. Thanks for the responses. Might be a different issue in this newly rebuilt engine.

Vwbusma66- I installed cloyes gears in a previous engine. They went on and worked fine. The only issue is the crank gear doesn’t have threaded holes for a puller so removing it in the future will be a pain.

vwbusman66 said:

Has anyone used a Cloyes aluminum set as of late?

Click to expand...

Yep. I've installed 3 sets in the last year and a half or so and won't hesitate to use them again. I also like the new billet aluminum gears sold by VP and others, though those are more expensive.

Cameron
Portland

I agree- the VP aluminum sets look good and they come with gaskets. In fact I ordered a set after putting a stethoscope to the timing cover.

VP also has 25mm (1”) front sway bars.

cloyes gears

We used those in our 142E SCCA race car. Out of about 5 we used, 1 exploded. Came apart in some big chunks, 2 pieces through the cover. Ruined a race weekend. I know of 1 other the same thing happened to. I remember someone who machined some metal of the sides of the steel set to make them lighter.