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Debunking the t5 myth

Lucky the Smiling Pirate said:
what about th400 then?

seems like as chevy autos go, drag racers like the th350 and 400 more than the 700r4:e-shrug:
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as said a TH400 is a 3 spd w/ just larger internals that will rob more power trying to get a 4cyl engine to turn in.

they like those because as once again said they are cheaper to build up and most of those cars do not see highway miles AND they came from the factory with those transmissions so less work to get things up and working

a 200r4 would be a good trans if you could afford to get one built up.

otherwise you could always just get an AW71L build up right to hold the power.

I still think a 700r4 done right would be the best option... as you still can drive the thing on the highway and still abuse the hell out of it
 
We like T5's. Selling them anyway. I can get a grand for a good used v8 T5. Lot of junkyards put the v8 input shaft in the 4 banger box, instant profit. Lesson to be learned there.
They aren't anything I'd ever brag about otherwise unless you spend a fortune on them. Like everything else.

It's been my observation that you will always run into a financial obstacle like this when going fast.
Remember that old saying, speed costs money, etc, etc. Turbo's and such let you bypass that, for awhile. Everybody pays the piper one day though.
 
thelostartof said:
really? sam made 300hp and 400ft lb torque .. I would say that is more than a 300hp v8 would do
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its arguable that if you shift the 4cyl turbo, once you lift the clutch you arent making NEAR peak torque as the boost has to hit again.
Now Kenny may have been flatshifting (although he didnt in the 11.8) which would be making peak torque when you dump the clutch.

Edit: and its the shock load that i think breaks them
 
thelostartof said:
really? sam made 300hp and 400ft lb torque .. I would say that is more than a 300hp v8 would do
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He falls under the serious category that I mentioned. ;-)

Most people around here with the t5 swap are around 250 to 300 hp and torque. which is about right for that trans rating.
 
MrBill said:
what about like a t10? they handle the powers, its just 1:1
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T10's need some work to handle big big power. Tex and Richmond builds plenty of them, look around at places that sell used stock car parts -- almost every stock car runs a T10 or some iteration of it.



T56's aren't but so bulletproof either:
Borg Warner T56 Transmission Gear Ratio Identification

Part# 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Torque Rating
-003 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 330 lbs/ft
-006 3.36 2.07 1.35 1.00 0.80 0.62 350 lbs/ft
-007 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.80 0.62 350 ft/lbs
-011 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.80 0.62 450 ft/lbs
-012 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.80 0.62 450 ft/lbs
-016 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 450 ft/lbs
-017 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 450 ft/lbs
-018 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 450 ft/lbs
-019 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 450 ft/lbs
-020 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 450 ft/lbs
-021 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.79 0.63 450 ft/lbs
-022 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 350 ft/lbs
-023 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 375 ft/lbs
-024 2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 0.74 0.50 375 ft/lbs
-025 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 0.84 0.56 385 lbs-ft
 
And yet they put them in production cars with well over 500hp/500ft-lb, with a warranty. And they last. Blasphemy, I know.

Not everything is spec sheets and calculations. Isn't that the whole point of this thread?
 
Hmm..

I've seen people destroying T-5's. I blow the synchros on Getrac, my fault it's not built for flatshifts.

I was planning first Jerico, got cheap and started to think TKO600, but for me there is too much drawbacks on it so I got an old Toploader with Libertys gears in it..

Just an option, toploaders go cheaply there..
 
Is it time to start hunting up Muncies because people are forgetting to make sure that the whole drive line can support the power they want to lay down? Nothing is completely bullet proof or unbreakable. I've had piles of D60s, SM465s, NP205s and tons more that have stripped, cracked, bent, or exploded cause guys went crazy up front.
 
I've seen Richmonds starting as low as 1995 and as high as 3800 on Summit depending on number of speeds and other variations. One of those could very easily be the last transmission you buy for a long time.

But even the low end on that scale is pretty big. :-(
 
spruill242 said:
someone needs to put a Richmond 5 speed in a 240 they might hold up..
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The 4+1 (now Richmond 5 speed) is rated to 450 ft. but it's an old school transmission - very notchy shifts (I have one).

linuxman51 said:
I asked the mustang crowd, they came back with "we replace that piece of **** with a tremec, they don't reliably hold power".


So for approximately $1200usd, you can swap in a transmission that will shift nicer than an m46 and might hold 50-60 more hp semi-reliably. At the rate i'm going through t5's now (the latest has been retired in a cool 60 miles, without abusing it) I can replace aw's 5 to 1 and possibly come out ahead in the number of passes at the track.
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So why not just stock up on Volvo autotragics? The Volvo rearend is a similar issue, they are cheap and plentiful at the junkyards so it's hard to justify the $$$ to step up to a Ford 8.8/9", etc.

Lucky the Smiling Pirate said:
and what do you propose to do with the .5 ratio 6th gear?:-P
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That's easy. 4.56 gears! Track times will improve (if nothing else breaks). Also T56s can be built for big power. Sixspeeds, Inc has a good reputation on the LS1 forums.

That said I'd go for the GForce rebuild, since you already have the Ford T5 in there. On the other hand if reliability and drag strip performance are your priority, a GM automatic will probably be the best choice (and the least fun on the street, at least in my opinion). It's the street car vs. track car conundrum.
 
what is this gforce rebuild? I'd ultimately like to keep it a manual since I'm not building an all out drag car (if i was doing that, the th350 wouldn't have gone away, i'da cut the rear of the car for wider tires, and it wouldn't be as slow going down the 1/4 ;) ). I'd like it to be loosely multipurpose, or at the very least not stuck in one application to the point where buying another car would be cheaper than adjusting the chassis to go road racing.
 
linuxman51 said:
what is this gforce rebuild? I'd ultimately like to keep it a manual since I'm not building an all out drag car (if i was doing that, the th350 wouldn't have gone away, i'da cut the rear of the car for wider tires, and it wouldn't be as slow going down the 1/4 ;) ). I'd like it to be loosely multipurpose, or at the very least not stuck in one application to the point where buying another car would be cheaper than adjusting the chassis to go road racing.
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i cant back this up with "real" track experiance, but my general feeling is that an auto is not as detrimental to road racing as people make them out to be. besides, the torque corverter can only help keep the rear tires planted by absorbing a lot of drive line shock that would normally be transfered by the direct connection of the motor to the tires with a manual.

i think a 700R4 without lockup and a manual valve body would get you through the twisties plenty fast.

good luck with whatever you choose.
 
740Weapon said:
i cant back this up with "real" track experiance, but my general feeling is that an auto is not as detrimental to road racing as people make them out to be.
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That's a gutsy thing to say out loud, but since you said, I'll go ahead and say that I agree with it. However, I think it should be qualified and based on engine characteristics as well as how adapative (intelligent) the control system for the tranny is. You can tell that I think only modern e-controlled trannys fit here.

Evenstill, a money no object decision would be an auto with paddle shifters any day.
 
740Weapon said:
i cant back this up with "real" track experiance, but my general feeling is that an auto is not as detrimental to road racing as people make them out to be. .
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Oh ****. :rofl:


edit: Also the major question with th T56 would be if it fits in the tunnel. Maybe the gforce stuff is a good option...

edit2: just saw they put a .59 od in the gforce set. with the 2.93 1st gear that is a nice box.
 
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