home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-18-2018, 10:11 AM   #1
bigwilly1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Knutsford, Cheshire
Default Which car for Turbo Tinkering and why

Hey Turbo Bricks,

1st post here so will introduce myself. My names Will and im fat, which is the ONLY reason for my name. Ask my wife! Car enthusiast but work offshore as a super yacht engineer. Currently engineer on a 55m Hybrid super yacht but cant tell you the name due to owners privacy rules :(. The yacht does have 2 Volvo D6 engines and 2 D3s on the Tender though. Owned (and rented) a vast range of cars including a Classic V8 range rover, porches, Audi's (inc RS4) but my favorite car by far has been my N Reg Volvo 850, 2.5l 280k+, Full service history 7 seats etc. I loved how you could floor that thing everywhere and very rarely manage to get over the speed limit but still was plenty of fun!

Anyway, I'm going to be spending more time at home soon and looking for a project car to keep me out of my wifes way. I want another volvo again but want to make sure i get the right car to tinker with. long term plan is a sleeper with as much HP as possible over the next few years. No real interest in racing etc but want an engine/platform i can tune/upgrade with miminal input from 3rd Partys and realtivley easily. No real budget but the cheaper the better, for example a 850R would be fine but if I could get a 850 2.5 performing the same as the 850R for less money that would be better. No issues on fuel consumption as we have a 50mpg golf for longer trips! My only specification is it needs to be an estate. Would also love to do a supercharger sticking through the 'hood' but need the longitudinally mounted blocks for that to look right.

What do you experts reckon?
bigwilly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 10:36 AM   #2
Cromlech
Board Member
 
Cromlech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Gloucester, ENGLAND
Default

Hmm, works for someone who can afford a yacht, and lives in Cheshire.
Footballer, are they?

I'm biased as a 940 turbo owner myself, but considering we in the UK are able to find late model cars with the M90, and they are dead simple to work on.
But if you have your heart set on a 5-pot then an 850 or V70 T5 would be a good shout.
Cromlech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 02:50 PM   #3
bigwilly1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Knutsford, Cheshire
Default

Hahaha I wish it was a footballer but this guy is way wealthier but waayy tighter on his pennies lol

Googling the 940’s now. I like the squarer body shape so it’s winning so far!

Can you explain briefly the ROUGH (and I mean rough) costs on each ‘stage’ of the turbo build and the approx HP that comes from it? IE “stage 1 is manifold, turbo, remap and extras~ £500 and ~200hp”.
bigwilly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 02:58 PM   #4
centason
Autogestion
 
centason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ft.Mill, SC
Default

Money is going to depend on what parts you use. I'd look across the pond at Sweden for go fast parts. KLRacing and KGTrimning are good places to start. Classicswede will have you covered for suspension parts and other goodies in England. May be able to source other parts too.
__________________
Member: TBCCS
"Those who do not move, do not notice their chains." -Rosa Luxemburg
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
Yes, but I keep having the dream of shoving the Cocaine up my ass!
Quote:
Originally Posted by golgothan View Post
Ohh god no, I'd rather eat hot diarrhea than drive a 7/9
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedFridge View Post
You sons of bitches are the biggest thread de-railers in forum history. Any forums history.
centason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 01:38 AM   #5
Redwood Chair
K-jet For Life
 
Redwood Chair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: - Stock PSI Or Bust -
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwilly1 View Post
Hahaha I wish it was a footballer but this guy is way wealthier but waayy tighter on his pennies lol

Googling the 940’s now. I like the squarer body shape so it’s winning so far!

Can you explain briefly the ROUGH (and I mean rough) costs on each ‘stage’ of the turbo build and the approx HP that comes from it? IE “stage 1 is manifold, turbo, remap and extras~ £500 and ~200hp”.


Tb newb performance faq
__________________
Raise The Lowered


Image hosted by servimg.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperfauto View Post
Folks on here don't know a good deal when they see it.
how psi stock cna support?

Redwood Chair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 08:43 AM   #6
BDKR
Section 9
 
BDKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Horizons Cave
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cromlech View Post

I'm biased as a 940 turbo owner myself, but considering we in the UK are able to find late model cars with the M90, and they are dead simple to work on.
But if you have your heart set on a 5-pot then an 850 or V70 T5 would be a good shout.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwilly1 View Post
Hey Turbo Bricks,

1st post here so will introduce myself. My names Will and im fat, which is the ONLY reason for my name. Ask my wife! Car enthusiast but work offshore as a super yacht engineer. Currently engineer on a 55m Hybrid super yacht but cant tell you the name due to owners privacy rules :(. The yacht does have 2 Volvo D6 engines and 2 D3s on the Tender though. Owned (and rented) a vast range of cars including a Classic V8 range rover, porches, Audi's (inc RS4) but my favorite car by far has been my N Reg Volvo 850, 2.5l 280k+, Full service history 7 seats etc. I loved how you could floor that thing everywhere and very rarely manage to get over the speed limit but still was plenty of fun!

Anyway, I'm going to be spending more time at home soon and looking for a project car to keep me out of my wifes way. I want another volvo again but want to make sure i get the right car to tinker with. long term plan is a sleeper with as much HP as possible over the next few years. No real interest in racing etc but want an engine/platform i can tune/upgrade with miminal input from 3rd Partys and realtivley easily. No real budget but the cheaper the better, for example a 850R would be fine but if I could get a 850 2.5 performing the same as the 850R for less money that would be better. No issues on fuel consumption as we have a 50mpg golf for longer trips! My only specification is it needs to be an estate. Would also love to do a supercharger sticking through the 'hood' but need the longitudinally mounted blocks for that to look right.

What do you experts reckon?

Sounds like a cool job.

Anyway, shouldn't you ask yourself some questions first.

*) Daily Driven
*) Need AWD?
*) Plan to race it (course, drag, or drift)
*) Or is it occasional street use and some touring
*) How much power do you want

As an 850r owner and speaking directly to the 850's, keep in mind that as they age more, 5h1t that shouldn't happen will happen. Way too much plastic that becomes brittle with years. This is why I plan on parting company with my R.

Go with a 7/9. They age far better than P80's! Later 9's are great. I agree with Cromlech completely concerning the 9's that are available in Europe. M90's are stout. And if autos, even AW71's with good care and modified accumulators will last a long time at elevated power levels (talking about high 200's to low 300's and not used for drag racing).

You CAN also swap a 5 cylinder into a 7/9.

__________________
Quote:
For all you Dijkstra fanboys:

Knuth also cites a letter sent to him by Dijkstra, in which the latter adds some nuance to this earlier statements: "Please don't fall into the trap of believing that I am terribly dogmatical about [the go to statement]. I have the uncomfortable feeling that others are making a religion out of it, as if the conceptual problems of programming could be solved by a single trick, by a simple form of coding discipline!"
BDKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 08:52 AM   #7
white855T
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas,TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDKR View Post

Go with a 7/9. They age far better than P80's!
I'd disagree with this point. 850's age about the same as 7/9 series red blocks. Besides the dash on 850's, the basically use the same materials and over time they just apart if not taken care of. Maintenance is easier on 7/9 series cars and maintenance cost is little bit less. The only problem with the 850's is they are wwd(wrong wheel drive).

The best choice is a late model 940 turbo wagon(96-98) preferably with the M90 but I'd find the nicest turbo car and buy that. If it has an autotragic, you can source the manual transmissions bits relatively easy.

Start with a red block build and if that doesn't suit your fancy, you can consider other engine swaps when the time comes.
white855T is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 09:49 AM   #8
BDKR
Section 9
 
BDKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Horizons Cave
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by white855T View Post
I'd disagree with this point. 850's age about the same as 7/9 series red blocks.
Hmmm.... Here is a list of items I've dealt with to date.
  • Dash
  • HVAC vent controls deep in the dash
  • Center console
  • Door latch mechanism
  • Speaker grills
  • Sunroof mechanism covers (so you can't see the bits while the interior slide is open)
  • Odometer

All due to that **** material they used! This experience is based on owning two P80's so far.

I've owned or own 3 740's and 3 240's. Never had to wonder why the dash sounds like it's exploding or wonder if you're going to brake a portion of the interior while working on it. Never experience heat blowing on one side of the car and cold from the other.

Let's not forget the plastic bit in the door that crumbles and essentially needs a coat hanger turned into a double ended fish hook to repair.

My R is gorgeous, and it's fun, but P80's are built like 5hit.
BDKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 12:59 PM   #9
bigwilly1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Knutsford, Cheshire
Default

Wow - Alot of responses!

@ Redwood Chair - thanks for the link. ALOT of good reading on there. Doesnt mean much to me at the moment but working through bit by bit! Thanks to the author also! Ive been on a few forums now and love those FAQs!

@ Centaston - Thanks for the lnk also, having a look on those website after writing this post !

@ BDKR
*) Daily Driven - Nope - have access to various other forms of transport, and i'm offshore 1/2 year with no daily commutes whilst im home!

*) Need AWD? - Nope - from what i remember of the skinny 850 tyres though AWD might be good? Quite keen for AWD but i presume that complicates Transmission issues and Engine bay access and adds costs

*) Plan to race it (course, drag, or drift). Nope. maybe a track day once just for fun but definatly not big thing.

*) Or is it occasional street use and some touring - Yes exactly, Something i can use for the dogs, B&Q trips etc but also fiddle with have some fun with. Ideally embarrass a few modern VAG's etc but still park anywhere in the country without fear, which was the problem with the RS4, it had a stupidly loud after market exhaust aswell.

*) How much power do you want - Skys the limit within costs and complications. No real aim/target. Just want some fun! Got a nice tool collection sat at home unused so looking for an excuse to use them!



- What about the early V70s? Are they easy to 'fondle' or are they the next gen/CANBUS etc and much more complicated? Or do they still have the Cr@p plastic. Dont really want to spend my time fiddling round fixing HVAC vents etc. Sounds like my day job to me!

- What about the AWD versions. The car will be kept in a field (undercover) 1/2 its life so being able to get itself out would handy! Quite keen for AWD but i presume that complicates Transmission issues, Engine bay access, adds costs and harder to find.

- No plans to upgrade the suspension as want to keep the right nice and soft. Will prob upgrade brakes as if there is a good solution, only for safety though!

- Would you guys recommend starting with a 'R' model, Turbo model or with bog standard manual? One of the big things is having something to research and focus on whilst offshore rather than sitting at the beach drinking Rum!! Googling, eBaying & Sourcing parts etc. Spend lots of time in the US and Europe so get access to a wide range of options for parts etc. Also free tools and paint onboard! Would also love to do a Megasquirt install one day!!! I imagine if i get the 'R' model, any upgrades from there involve engine rebuilds and megasquirt pretty quickly, where as starting with the bog standard i can spend time sourcing all the turbo parts etc, then evolve step by step?
bigwilly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 01:23 PM   #10
bigwilly1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Knutsford, Cheshire
Default

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-VOLV...sAAOSwjXNaivBr

AWD T5 ? FSH up until ~20k ago? ABS light on though, is that an issue?

Dent in the door doesnt bother me too much, my missus will dent the thing pretty quick lol!
bigwilly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 01:42 PM   #11
Wilford Brimley
Is posting from the grave
 
Wilford Brimley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Marysville, wa
Default

Late model 7/9....do it
Wilford Brimley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 01:46 PM   #12
Jack
junkman
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: The Ass Cheek Of History
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDKR View Post


My R is gorgeous, and it's fun, but P80's are built like 5hit.
you trade one set of problems for another in 2/7/9/ P80 chassis


850 - while the dash does crack its super easy to replace - I reinforced my crack free one with fiberglass before installing it and 80k miles later its still fine


850 door panels with the exception of interior grab handle surround are totally fine
while the 98-2000 panels suck but dash is fine

heater core takes maybe an hour to do

etc etc
__________________
85 245 | 82 242| 75 245| 69 145 |66 122| 67 220




Quote:
Originally Posted by paul buck View Post
I love you even more Jack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritishBrick
Don’t bother, I would literally rather throw them away than give you the pleasure. I will never sell to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuesday View Post
I expect nothing less from an incel like you, Jack.
Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 02:20 PM   #13
BDKR
Section 9
 
BDKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Horizons Cave
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
you trade one set of problems for another in 2/7/9/ P80 chassis
Damn straight. Some are understandable and acceptable. Some aren't. A disintegrating interior isn't.

The cool thing is that you can buy mine when I put it up for sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
850 - while the dash does crack its super easy to replace - I reinforced my crack free one with fiberglass before installing it and 80k miles later its still fine
Guess what, it's going to come apart where you didn't put fiberglass. And if you say you did the whole thing, show pics... or it's shens!

And when one side starts blowing cold and there's heat on the other side, can you reinforce that stuff?

But whatever... The OP seems dead set on a P80 even tho most here suggest 9.

Have fun.
BDKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 03:22 PM   #14
bigwilly1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Knutsford, Cheshire
Default

So looking at 9’s now. Seem to be a few more quid that’s the 850s but cooler looking and RWD. Like the longitudinal engine mount aswell - more room either side !

What’s regarded the best option for the 9 (or 8) from a tuning point of view? Must admit been reading the FAQ and talking 11sec 1/4 miles is pretty interesting. Not necessarily to ever do the 1/4 mile but have the bragging right

There’s is a few 3.0l 960 Autos on eBay at the moment. Good buy or should I wait it out for a manual? Sure displacement is king for tuning but I know strength could
Be an issue ?
bigwilly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 10:34 PM   #15
soclosenotnear
Board Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: summerville, south carolina
Default

Reiterating getting a 93+ 940 turbo with either aw71/m90. They're pleasant to work on. Go for a 4 cylinder redblock if you want to make it fast.
__________________
check my feedback here
soclosenotnear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2018, 11:15 PM   #16
white855T
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas,TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
you trade one set of problems for another in 2/7/9/ P80 chassis


850 - while the dash does crack its super easy to replace - I reinforced my crack free one with fiberglass before installing it and 80k miles later its still fine


Super easy is a 240 dash. P80 dash swap is a pita but not too bad. I've done at least a dozen

850 door panels with the exception of interior grab handle surround are totally fine
while the 98-2000 panels suck but dash is fine

850 door panels use the same material as 7/9 cars and are preferable to 98-00 crap

heater core takes maybe an hour to do

30 minutes if you remember to drain coolant. Can't tell you how many times I forget to do that. 30 mintues to R&R heater core, 30 minutes cleaning up coolant

etc etc
Similar issues which just is normal maintenance crap.
white855T is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2018, 10:23 AM   #17
BDKR
Section 9
 
BDKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Horizons Cave
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by soclosenotnear View Post
Reiterating getting a 93+ 940 turbo with either aw71/m90. They're pleasant to work on. Go for a 4 cylinder redblock if you want to make it fast.
+1!
BDKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2018, 02:41 PM   #18
bigwilly1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Knutsford, Cheshire
Default

OK, cool.

Whats involved with getting the Auto box out and putting a M90 or AW71 in? Really keen to have a manual as its more fun, stronger and more economical. Is it it easy or should I really be looking at one with a manual?
bigwilly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2018, 06:30 PM   #19
sbabbs
Board Member
 
sbabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Rushing Lane, Scappoose, OR
Default

You should be able to buy a 1995 to 1998 940 with turbo redblock and M90 manual transmission. That's what I'd do if I was in UK.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1997-P-VO...kAAOSwhdZaedkW
__________________
1988 245 White slicktop M47 Wagon! 93 b230f. LH 2.4 STS flat flywheel.
1990 745 B230FT Getrag JohnV flywheel 240mm clutch 13c A-cam 3.54 G80 548K
1991 740SE B230FT NPR Strut braces IPD bar A cam 550cc EV14's. 3.73 G80 M90 to put in.
1995 940 White racing wagoon. 13c m90 to put in
sbabbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2018, 10:01 PM   #20
ElHefe910
Board Member
 
ElHefe910's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Wilmington, NC
Default

C70 Me7 T5 5spd chipped with exhaust. Have fun
ElHefe910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2018, 01:10 AM   #21
HiSPL
Board Member
 
HiSPL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: College Station, TX
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigwilly1 View Post
There’s is a few 3.0l 960 Autos on eBay at the moment. Good buy or should I wait it out for a manual? Sure displacement is king for tuning but I know strength could
Be an issue ?
I'd stay away if it's your first go with a project car. The 960 is a bit of an orphan. Volvo's first modular aluminum block in a straight 6. It can be a nice motor and mmake really good power with a turbo, but it's kinda fussy and if the maintenance hasn't been kept up, it's probably already got a blown headgasket......
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by 240240 View Post
Beets taste like buttfeet.
HiSPL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2018, 03:30 PM   #22
Pillow
Sleazebag 7-9 Owner
 
Pillow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NoVA
Default

My vote for ease of platform to grow on is the 960/965 with M90. The whiteblock parts available and cheap since the line includes the later T5s etc. = shared parts. The 3.0 is a proven powerhouse with boost and easily configurable with MS3. And the 960 will have more creature comforts than the lower line models.

Any RWD base is also good for V8 swaps ;)
__________________
2010 Porsche Cayenne S - My ride - 99k stock
2010 Cadillac Escalade ESV - Wifeys ride - 205k stock
2007 Audi A4 3.2 M6 - daughters ride - 166k stock
2006 Volvo XC70 Wagon - sons ride - 175k stock
1992 Volvo 965 - "Savage Wagon" w LS 5.3 LM7 + LS7 cam + GM T5 swap in progress.
1979 Porsche 911SC - stock
1971 Chevy C-10 w 5.3 LS (LS2 cam) & GM T5 trans
1948 Spartan Mansion travel trailer - aluminum greatness
Pillow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2018, 02:31 PM   #23
bigwilly1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Knutsford, Cheshire
Default

Pillow - you've got me looking at LS swaps now. Keep saying to myself 'one step at a time fatboy'! I've done projects like this before and it's always disappointing how little return on investment I get back. Part of this plan is eventually putting the tuned and cared for engine into a new project IE a caterham/GBS zero (cheap UK go kart that's road legal for our US readers). Kinda makes sense to get a LS and swap it invest in that engine as there aren't many people putting Volvo engines I'm Chevys etc so it's quite a common swap!

On a similar theme, Any guys on here seem the 970 on eBay. At Stage 0, MBC, exhaust. M90, Redblock, welded diff etc. on my phone so struggling to get a link. But is it a known car to any members on here and is It a good buy? My plan was to do it stage by stage but this could be a very cheap and easy way to get all the parts I'd need!!!

Last edited by bigwilly1; 02-22-2018 at 02:42 PM..
bigwilly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2018, 03:13 PM   #24
Redwood Chair
K-jet For Life
 
Redwood Chair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: - Stock PSI Or Bust -
Default

Ya I seemed it.
Redwood Chair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2018, 08:03 PM   #25
dm245
Board Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Louisville,Ky
Default

Another vote for a 960. As already noted though a bit of an orphan. It's a car I wouldn't recommend as your 1st Volvo though. But, you have a much better chance of getting a manual where you're located. I'm hooked on them after owning a few. You get the turbo output without some of the turbo issues. Believe me though there's nothing like a turbo brick, got an '87 760t in the fleet. I enjoy boost, but I also love that 2.9 white block. Not a lot of modding to do to it so I would say give it a try. The best advice I could give on a 960 is to get one where everything works and has been maintained. These are not project cars. Buy the best you can find.
__________________
DAVE previous- 83-242 DL, 84-242t, 83-245t, 92-965, 94-965, 94-855, 95-945, 91-780, 98-V70XC, 95-964
present- 91-745, 96-964, 87-635CSi
dm245 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.