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Old 10-09-2020, 10:23 PM   #26
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I found a Ford T5 that I'm going to look at this weekend. It supposedly came out of a mid-90's Mustang GT - about the time that Ford switched to the longer input shaft. I have seem measurements listed online for them listed as 182.6mm for the early Ford T5 vs. 199.9mm for the later measuring from the face of the trans. case to the end of the input shaft; can anyone confirm this? Worst case scenario is I have to get a shorter input shaft or shorten the one that's on there if it's the longer one.

Judging by the charts I have seen online the mid-90's Ford T5's had a 3.15 first gear, which to me seems doable for a slightly hopped up b23 engine and the 240's 3.31 rear gear.
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Old 10-10-2020, 12:21 AM   #27
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3.35 first gear, no the V8s all had the shorter input. Read the tag for details on the overdrive gear. Also no, 3.31 is too tall.
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:57 AM   #28
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Following! Yes, it’s definitely getting harder to find these old things. I’d love something more modern, as well.

Regarding the 3.31 rear end... If you want spritely performance, you’ll not like that combo. If you’re used to the M46, it’ll still be an improvement, but you’ll be using 4th gear more often because 5th is so tall. With the ‘83 B23, MS and an A cam, you should have a nice, torquey motor though. It could be fine, just not quick. A 3.73 could be a good overall match for a daily driver and the V8 box’s 3.35 1st and .68 5th if you don’t like it; and they’re readily available in all the later auto 240s that are so common.

That being said, you probably don’t actually have a 3.31 rear end... I think the ‘83 has a 3.91, which contributes to why you hate first gear so much. The V8 box will be nice.

Good luck and keep us updated!

Oh, ok the General Leif, I am pretty certain we’re running a 4 cylinder T5 clutch disc on our factory Volvo 8.5” pressure plate and flat flywheel.
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Old 10-10-2020, 02:13 AM   #29
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Other than the nice, notchy shifts (from the Pro 5.0 shifter), I hated the T5 in my 245. It whined in gear and rattled on overrun, even after a complete rebuild. If you don't mind a noisy transmission, they're fine. If that's something that might bother you, then stay away.
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Old 10-10-2020, 02:21 AM   #30
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3.35 first gear, no the V8s all had the shorter input. Read the tag for details on the overdrive gear. Also no, 3.31 is too tall.
So if the tag is missing then the only way to calculate the 1st gear ratio is to put it in first gear and turn the input shaft by hand and try to figure it out manually? Also, it does look like pretty much all the the Mustang V-8 T5's had high overdrive gears: something like .68 which seems like would really bog down the little Volvo 2.3. Sounds like I should pass on the above box if it truly is out of a V-8 Mustang (which I believe all the GT's were back then).

It's amazing to me that Ford used such low first gears in V-8 Mustangs as 3.35. My '78 Firebird with a 350 c.i. engine and a 3.23 rear gear Has a Borg Warner Super T-10 in it with a 2.64 first gear, and it's not at all hard to drive. It's nice to have a first gear I can actually use on the road while the car is moving. Seems like Ford could have gotten away with using a lot closer ratio gearboxes in their ponies.
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Old 10-10-2020, 02:50 AM   #31
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Yes, most of them are .68 5th gears(with 3.35 1sts). The T5Z transmission has close ratios with a 2.95 1st and a .63 5th. You can get a “Sebring” 5th gear for that gearset and it becomes a .80, which is perfect for performance. That’s what we have in the General Leif with a 4.56 rear end and 23” tall tires. It’s a hoot!

That being said, yes, the .68 5th is not ideal, but I am sure you have a 3.91 rear which will make the .68 5th be almost EXACTLY the same as stock late model 5spd 240’s effective 5th gear ratio.

http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
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Old 10-10-2020, 01:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
[...] I hated the T5 in my 245. It whined in gear and rattled on overrun, even after a complete rebuild. If you don't mind a noisy transmission, they're fine. If that's something that might bother you, then stay away.
What you describe would almost certainly bother me. Well-tuned ears. I vastly prefer smooth and quiet.

So, it's worth adding another data point to your post: I've driven 2 different V8 T5 transmissions and not heard any problems... including 1/4 million daily driver miles in an almost-stock Mustang. (My only modification was quieter mufflers, so I could enjoy road trips more.)

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Also no, 3.31 [rear end] is too tall.
Agreed, for a 4 cylinder. But for a V8 that would work really well. In fact, all the gear ratios felt just about right, to me... Perhaps I would have felt differently if I had been racing it.
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Old 10-10-2020, 03:13 PM   #33
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Is there a chart or formula somewhere on the web for calculating the best transmission gear ratios for the engine power you have or are planning to have, your rear axle ratio, and carrying the weight you estimate your car to be? All I can find is stuff about rear axle gear ratios.

3.35 first gear still seems a bit low to me for a V-8 powered car unless you have a super high rear axle ratio - like in the 2.something area. My guess is a lot of car manufacturers used the really low first gears to accommodate drivers with various skills at driving stickshifts. It's easier to drive a car with a really low first without killing the engine when starting from a complete stop for inexperienced or unskilled drivers not used to operating a clutch.

Re 4 cylinder cars: My '77 Vega has a 4-speed in it with a 3.50 first gear and a fairly high rear gear such as a 3.08 which was a very common ration GM used the late '70's, even in the little H-bodies. I own another GM 4-speed with a 3.11 first gear that has the H-body torque tube tailshaft housing on it, so for all I know they might have been used as well in Vegas. Of course the difference between the Vega and the 240 is the Vega is quite a bit lighter and more streamlined in shape, so that could account for why GM could use those gear ratios even though the 2.3 liter engines in Vegas weren't very powerful stock like the Volvo 2.3's.
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Old 10-10-2020, 06:00 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
Other than the nice, notchy shifts (from the Pro 5.0 shifter), I hated the T5 in my 245. It whined in gear and rattled on overrun, even after a complete rebuild. If you don't mind a noisy transmission, they're fine. If that's something that might bother you, then stay away.
I worked on quite a few as a ford tech from 85 through 89, Then as a gm tech until 92, i think. They can definitely be good transmissions.
I built one for a guy running 12 second ETs in a 95 mustang with nitrous. I hand-filed the 2nd and 3rd gear synchro guides in that one.

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Is there a chart or formula somewhere on the web for calculating the best transmission gear ratios for the engine power you have or are planning to have, your rear axle ratio, and carrying the weight you estimate your car to be? All I can find is stuff about rear axle gear ratios.

3.35 first gear still seems a bit low to me for a V-8 powered car unless you have a super high rear axle ratio - like in the 2.something area. My guess is a lot of car manufacturers used the really low first gears to accommodate drivers with various skills at driving stickshifts. It's easier to drive a car with a really low first without killing the engine when starting from a complete stop for inexperienced or unskilled drivers not used to operating a clutch.

Re 4 cylinder cars: My '77 Vega has a 4-speed in it with a 3.50 first gear and a fairly high rear gear such as a 3.08 which was a very common ration GM used the late '70's, even in the little H-bodies. I own another GM 4-speed with a 3.11 first gear that has the H-body torque tube tailshaft housing on it, so for all I know they might have been used as well in Vegas. Of course the difference between the Vega and the 240 is the Vega is quite a bit lighter and more streamlined in shape, so that could account for why GM could use those gear ratios even though the 2.3 liter engines in Vegas weren't very powerful stock like the Volvo 2.3's.
My 73 vega had a saginaw 4 speed and 3.08s, i hated it unless cruising steady. A buddy had a 72 wagon with the opel trans and a 3.36. I liked that combo.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:32 PM   #35
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I haven't driven my Vega since the late 1980's when I sold it. I really liked that car back then, so when I found it sitting in a salvage yard while I was looking for parts for a customer's Chevelle I couldn't resist buying it back. I have been so bogged down with restoring vehicles for customers and working on my Firebird and Volvo that I haven't had much of a chance to get it running again. The gas tank rusted out sitting for so long so I have to replace that first since the Vega, like the 240, had an in tank fuel pump. In fact I believe they might have used the same model in tank pump.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:44 PM   #36
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Regarding the T5 I called about that I was thinking about taking a look at, I got the tag number from the owner of it and it apparently came out of a '99-2005 Mustang with a V-6. These T-5's were supposedly identical to the '94-95 Mustang GT T5s except they had an electronic speedometer. Unfortunately that means they have the .68 overdrive gear so they can't be realistically used in a 4 cyl 240. I'd say if someone was doing an V-8 swap into a 240 this would be a good choice since these seem to be about the most readily available OEM T5s available right now.

I may just turn my attention to finding a 2.3 Mustang T5 - even though I don't like the super low 1st gear - or see about finding some other swap option. It's too bad transmission swap options are so limited for the 240 with the stock engine.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:52 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
Other than the nice, notchy shifts (from the Pro 5.0 shifter), I hated the T5 in my 245. It whined in gear and rattled on overrun, even after a complete rebuild. If you don't mind a noisy transmission, they're fine. If that's something that might bother you, then stay away.
They shift wonderfully and normally, are quiet. I've had several Fords with T5s in them. I've also had a GM T5 that was a very noisy one.
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Old 10-11-2020, 03:54 PM   #38
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Unfortunately that means they have the .68 overdrive gear so they can't be realistically used in a 4 cyl 240.
Well, that’s very debatable. I’m starting to lean that direction but keep the 3.73 rear end as it’s a taller first than the M47, but also a taller 5th so I get both things I want. Well, ideally I’d have 6 gears, but I feel this is a decent compromise. http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=357250
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Old 10-11-2020, 04:32 PM   #39
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I have a T5 in my 240 with the 0.68 5th gear. It is a good highway gear with the 3.91 rear. Worked fine with a n/a 8v setup. I don’t mind shifting down a gear for longer hills on the hwy.
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Old 10-11-2020, 06:08 PM   #40
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I have a T5 in my 240 with the 0.68 5th gear. It is a good highway gear with the 3.91 rear. Worked fine with a n/a 8v setup. I don’t mind shifting down a gear for longer hills on the hwy.
Yep, they are absolutely fine with a 4.1-3.73 ratio
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Old 10-12-2020, 02:07 AM   #41
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Yep, they are absolutely fine with a 4.1-3.73 ratio
Being a manual NA car from the mid-80's I'm fairly confident my car has the 3.31 rear axle ratio so I don't think that would work with the .68 overdrive gear very well.

I think ideally you would want whatever rear axle ratio that allows the engine to turn at a good rpm for highway driving and four or five closely spaced gears, with the highest one being 1:1. An overdrive gear just bogs down the engine when you shift into it and doesn't let it accelerate very well so you end up having to shift down for passing, going up steep hills, etc., Plus when you have one in a transmission the rest of the gears get spaced out more so you're not as able to keep the engine running in its ideal power band. I doubt many top level race cars run overdrive gears.
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Old 10-12-2020, 12:16 PM   #42
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Being a manual NA car from the mid-80's I'm fairly confident my car has the 3.31 rear axle ratio so I don't think that would work with the .68 overdrive gear very well.
Well....I'm about to find out on this one. When I went down that road with my swap, I was thinking that it would make for decent interstate cruising (70-80mph). I'm less concerned about acceleration with an N/A brick...

I've just got a few odds&ends to wrap up, and then it'll be back on the road...
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Old 10-12-2020, 04:04 PM   #43
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Being a manual NA car from the mid-80's I'm fairly confident my car has the 3.31 rear axle ratio so I don't think that would work with the .68 overdrive gear very well.
From the way it drove, I think my roommate's old M46 equipped 1983 wagon had a 3.91 rear end. That was a wagon, maybe the sedan has a different ratio. I haven't looked.
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Old 10-12-2020, 04:43 PM   #44
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My T5 with 3.35 first with 3.73 gears is borderline stupid. First gear to 35-38, second to damn near 70, which is all fine unless you're trying to drive in populated areas. Sucked at local short auto-x, ran the whole course in first. ClutchMasters fx400 pucked clutch, so good luck pulling away from a stop without drawing attention.

I'll be going to 4.56 or 4.11 gears in the future. The 3.73 is just not as much fun as I thought below 60.
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Old 10-12-2020, 06:02 PM   #45
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My T5 with 3.35 first with 3.73 gears is borderline stupid. First gear to 35-38, second to damn near 70, which is all fine unless you're trying to drive in populated areas. Sucked at local short auto-x, ran the whole course in first. ClutchMasters fx400 pucked clutch, so good luck pulling away from a stop without drawing attention.

I'll be going to 4.56 or 4.11 gears in the future. The 3.73 is just not as much fun as I thought below 60.
My experience is similarish, except my trans put me at 44 and 79 mph in 1st and 2nd. Similar power delivery as an 8v, then keeps pulling. It's fun when nobody is around.
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Old 10-13-2020, 02:24 AM   #46
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I think ideally you would want whatever rear axle ratio that allows the engine to turn at a good rpm for highway driving

An overdrive gear just bogs down the engine when you shift into it and doesn't let it accelerate very well so you end up having to shift down for passing, going up steep hills, etc.
What's wrong with shifting for passing?

"Good RPM" depends on where you live and what you demand of your wheels. There are vast stretches of countryside where it's so flat you can watch your dog run away for 3 days. No need to turn high rpm, for that.
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Old 10-13-2020, 04:35 AM   #47
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What's wrong with shifting for passing?

"Good RPM" depends on where you live and what you demand of your wheels. There are vast stretches of countryside where it's so flat you can watch your dog run away for 3 days. No need to turn high rpm, for that.
That's what autos do all day long, match load to the proper gear.
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Old 10-19-2020, 11:11 PM   #48
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I liberated a T5 from a V6 Mustang at LKQ over my noon hour today. I know there's a chance it might have gearing that some folks might consider too high for a 240 four banger but the price was right ($129) and the only other options in my area were the twoT5s listed earlier in the thread, and I'm thinking the 2.8 V6 Camaro T5 is going to have the shifter too far back for a 240 even though it has fairly low gears. I contacted a guy about a 2.3 Mustang T5 that was two hours away and never got any response, and I don't have time to go traipsing all over the country looking for the perfect transmission or thousands of dollars to spend on some custom gearbox shipped for who knows where. I figure if this doesn't work I can probably sell it for at least what I paid for it and go back to the crappy old m46. The thing I like about this box is that it is perfectly dry on the outside, unlike the m46 which was an oily, dirty mess.

It's too bad there aren't any other 5-speed options available in the midwest US to transplant into the 240 besides the T5. Unfortunately stickshift cars are only about 1% of car sales here from what I've read and have been for some time. It doesn't help that most new cars are front-wheel-drive now, too.

I'm not planning on messing with this transmission situation for a while since I have a Plymouth Road Runner project I need to finish up for someone and he's getting impatient. I converted that car to a pistol grip shifted 4-speed for him and we definitely didn't have worry about getting a gearbox for it that had too high of gears, since it has 400 c.i. of Detroit muscle under the hood!
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Old 10-20-2020, 04:59 PM   #49
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I'm in this exact situation myself, bought a WC T5 only to find out the input shaft had been swapped with a 4-cyl T5 and this won't work with the Deeworks Kit. I've been desperately trying to find a guide on how to swap the input shafts because I've never done any type of trans work at all. Has anyone done an input shaft swap that could give me some tips? I really don't want to buy whole new T5.
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The V6 mustang t5 will work with the transmission adapters available (or if you make your own) if you swap in a 5.0 inut shaft. Super easy and costs considerably less then an original 5.0 unit
Easiest solution from there is volvo flat FW, saab viggen PP and either custom disc or get the right one off the specs for some random ford.
Nice thing about the T5 is if you grenade it you just need another cheap junkyard unit, can't really say that about any other transmission option out there these days
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Old 10-20-2020, 06:56 PM   #50
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I'm in this exact situation myself, bought a WC T5 only to find out the input shaft had been swapped with a 4-cyl T5 and this won't work with the Deeworks Kit. I've been desperately trying to find a guide on how to swap the input shafts because I've never done any type of trans work at all. Has anyone done an input shaft swap that could give me some tips? I really don't want to buy whole new T5.
It's super easy, with the following caveat, inside the end of the input shaft are 15 individual roller bearings. Make sure the input shaft end of the transmission is pointed down so the roller bearings don't fall out. The gear on the end of the shaft is notched, you just spin it around until it comes out. Just make sure you put everything back the way it came out. Use some grease to hold the individual roller bearings in the end of the shaft. You should probably re-shim it. I got a peel away shim kit online. You just keep peeling shims off until it's tight and not binding. I also replaced the input shaft bearing with one from Advance auto.
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