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Old 10-20-2020, 07:41 PM   #51
vegiguy
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Originally Posted by DavePolyakov View Post
I'm in this exact situation myself, bought a WC T5 only to find out the input shaft had been swapped with a 4-cyl T5 and this won't work with the Deeworks Kit. I've been desperately trying to find a guide on how to swap the input shafts because I've never done any type of trans work at all. Has anyone done an input shaft swap that could give me some tips? I really don't want to buy whole new T5.
I think the problem you're going to have with just trying to change the input shaft is when you pull the input shaft/ front bearing out of the front to the case the little needle bearings on the inside of it are going to want to all fall out and some will go to the bottom of the case, and then you will have trouble fishing them out from the top of the case since the T5 is a toploader. The input shaft bearing is usually pressed onto the input shaft and is a snug fit in the case so it may take some doing to get it out once you remove the front bearing retainer. I've just rebuilt four-speeds so the T5 might be a different animal, but I wouldn't count on it. You might want to plan on having to take the mainshaft assembly and counter shaft out of the case to be able to change out the input shaft unless you get lucky and the needle bearings stay in the input shaft cup.

Another option that might work is to have a spacer plate made to go between the case, adapter, and bellhousing that would compensate for the longer input shaft, although this would also mover the shifter back a bit which might be a problem.
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Old 10-20-2020, 08:15 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by vegiguy View Post
I think the problem you're going to have with just trying to change the input shaft is when you pull the input shaft/ front bearing out of the front to the case the little needle bearings on the inside of it are going to want to all fall out and some will go to the bottom of the case, and then you will have trouble fishing them out from the top of the case since the T5 is a toploader. The input shaft bearing is usually pressed onto the input shaft and is a snug fit in the case so it may take some doing to get it out once you remove the front bearing retainer. I've just rebuilt four-speeds so the T5 might be a different animal, but I wouldn't count on it. You might want to plan on having to take the mainshaft assembly and counter shaft out of the case to be able to change out the input shaft unless you get lucky and the needle bearings stay in the input shaft cup.

Another option that might work is to have a spacer plate made to go between the case, adapter, and bellhousing that would compensate for the longer input shaft, although this would also mover the shifter back a bit which might be a problem.
Hence my advice to keep the input shaft end of the transmission pointed down so when you take it out so the roller bearings stay in the input shaft cup. I've had the input shaft out 3 times and haven't lost a roller bearing yet
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Old 10-21-2020, 11:57 AM   #53
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http://bakaxel.se/vaxellador/andra-5...volvo-rod.html

From 530d BMW, handles about 1000nm or 800 pound-feet.

Bakaxel.se is a good company from all of volvo lovers we are. They sold gearboxes, clutches and all good for the turbobrick.

And they ship all goodies to Finland also...
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Old 10-21-2020, 03:19 PM   #54
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I wish I chimed in earlier.

Don't start screwing around with ANY of the GM T5s. It's not worth it even if it has the Ford case. The GM input shafts and extension housings are going to end up requiring extra spacers, different clutch disks, and the shifter will not land where you want it.

The Ford unit will always be your best bet.
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:13 PM   #55
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I'm surprised that you're finding more F-body units than Ford. The opposite was true for me when I was looking for something to replace my blown up Camaro unit. Go figure.

FWIW. Even if you can't easily find a Fox body T5, I cant see the support going away any time soon. It's still a super versatile and simple package for swaps, and tons of them were made. You can buy any part you need for the Ford units or even buy them brand new! Of course you'll be spending big money there, but I think a T5 is still a very solid choice.
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:25 AM   #56
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I missed the talk of input shaft swapping but it's dead simple and I've never had a needle bearing fall out in me.

V6 unit is easy enough to get that idea still say it's the beast 5 speed option dollar and effort wise
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:51 AM   #57
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I missed the talk of input shaft swapping but it's dead simple and I've never had a needle bearing fall out in me.

V6 unit is easy enough to get that idea still say it's the beast 5 speed option dollar and effort wise
Easy only if has the same ratio though, right? I don't think you can just swap a V8 input for a V6.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:54 AM   #58
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Easy only if has the same ratio though, right? I don't think you can just swap a V8 input for a V6.
I swapped the Ford V8 input shaft into a T5 out of a Nissan 300ZX turbo. Not sure about the other V6's.
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:15 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Jussi Alanko View Post
http://bakaxel.se/vaxellador/andra-5...volvo-rod.html

From 530d BMW, handles about 1000nm or 800 pound-feet.

Bakaxel.se is a good company from all of volvo lovers we are. They sold gearboxes, clutches and all good for the turbobrick.

And they ship all goodies to Finland also...
I tried going this route a couple of years ago, and they weren't willing to ship across the pond. Otherwise would be a nice option for a more refined gearbox than the T5.
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:29 PM   #60
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I have been struggling with this issue for some time.
I have a 240 wagon M47 with a 3.31 rear which out here in west texas is fantastic. No, you are not into 5th until at least 50 mph but man does it scream right past 80 where most of my other volvos about max out!

That being said, I have always much preferred a wide ratio gear box. Way more useful to me in the real world. With the 3.31 I wish first was a bit lower and 5th was a bit taller. I finally went to the source:
https://tremec.com/menu/passenger-ve...transmissions/
The TR-2450 seems to have a gear ratio for everyone, too.

However, I have no clue where to buy one or how much they are.

Any suggestions on viability?

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Old 10-22-2020, 11:16 PM   #61
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It is a Ford T5, not GM. Thanks for the advice, I ordered the input shaft and will do the swap.
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Originally Posted by volvowagoon View Post
I wish I chimed in earlier.

Don't start screwing around with ANY of the GM T5s. It's not worth it even if it has the Ford case. The GM input shafts and extension housings are going to end up requiring extra spacers, different clutch disks, and the shifter will not land where you want it.

The Ford unit will always be your best bet.
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:20 PM   #62
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I will definitely try to do this, thanks.
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Hence my advice to keep the input shaft end of the transmission pointed down so when you take it out so the roller bearings stay in the input shaft cup. I've had the input shaft out 3 times and haven't lost a roller bearing yet
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:23 PM   #63
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I will definitely try to keep it angled on removal. Is reinstallation the same? (I'm guessing it is but is there any special trick?). Also, it is a World Class version because of the Timken countershaft cover, so someone must have swapped a 4 cylinder input shaft into a v8 transmission? Maybe I'm wrong. It's good to hear other t brickers have done an input shaft swap, seems simple but I really don't want to mess up the trans.

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Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
Hence my advice to keep the input shaft end of the transmission pointed down so when you take it out so the roller bearings stay in the input shaft cup. I've had the input shaft out 3 times and haven't lost a roller bearing yet
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:30 PM   #64
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I swapped the Ford V8 input shaft into a T5 out of a Nissan 300ZX turbo. Not sure about the other V6's.
Really? I was under the impression that the 300zx used the nwc t5 that has a different style of input shaft&bearing, but maybe that's just the 280zx l28 t5 units. I was thinking about one in mmt Z if I do a strange combo of a swap
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:32 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by DavePolyakov View Post
I will definitely try to keep it angled on removal. Is reinstallation the same? (I'm guessing it is but is there any special trick?). Also, it is a World Class version because of the Timken countershaft cover, so someone must have swapped a 4 cylinder input shaft into a v8 transmission? Maybe I'm wrong. It's good to hear other t brickers have done an input shaft swap, seems simple but I really don't want to mess up the trans.
Just use some regular bearing grease to hold the bearings in place, you can reinstall it in the horizontal position. There's a big flat washer thing that sits on the shims from what I remember. Definitely YouTube it to see what you need to do. I would order the peel away shim kit and re- shim it. I just kept taking out shim slices until it was tight and not binding but there's a way to actually measure it, again watch the YouTube video.
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:34 PM   #66
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Really? I was under the impression that the 300zx used the nwc t5 that has a different style of input shaft&bearing, but maybe that's just the 280zx l28 t5 units. I was thinking about one in mmt Z if I do a strange combo of a swap
I've beaten on it mercilessly, I only paid $100 for it. Drove it today even
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:35 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DavePolyakov View Post
I will definitely try to keep it angled on removal. Is reinstallation the same? (I'm guessing it is but is there any special trick?). Also, it is a World Class version because of the Timken countershaft cover, so someone must have swapped a 4 cylinder input shaft into a v8 transmission? Maybe I'm wrong. It's good to hear other t brickers have done an input shaft swap, seems simple but I really don't want to mess up the trans.
Throw up some pictures If you can. Just to make sure it's the same style of input shaft I'm thinking of. Did you measure the 4cly one to come to the conclusion it was one?

You'll also want a new bearing. Make sure to shim the input shaft correctly ( many videos go over this on YouTube ) or it won't last long
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:48 PM   #68
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I've beaten on it mercilessly, I only paid $100 for it. Drove it today even
I've seen your autocross videos, quite the beating

Do you have pictures of it before setting it up for a volvo? I was under the impression nissan got the NWC units as most of those guys seem to hate them, quoting NWC torque specs. I've yet to read anything about nissan guys having luck using ford units. But if you can take a nissan unit and set it up with the 5.0 input shaft it's gotta be compatible???

How long is the tail shaft housing? Same 28 spline output shaft?


%99 of what i've read out of the nissan community is ****ting on the T5, https://datsunzgarage.us/borg/ This is the only page praising it over their
It does list the pre 89 units as NWC, and the z32 never got a T5 so It seems yours is either not a WC unit, or not a 300zx unit,? Or I'm missing somthing, got the case tag?

edit- From this link
Quote:
Originally Posted by datsun Z garage
"The input shaft has a smaller pilot diameter and different spline count (24t) than Ford(10t) or GM(21t). This means it's not a straight bolt up to a V8 even with the proper bellhousing. You could swap out the input shaft for a V8 version but given the expense and time involved it's a lot easier sourcing a true V8 T5 if that's your path."
Well **** I guess you can swap ford and nissan input shafts?

Last edited by James M; 10-22-2020 at 11:56 PM..
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:15 AM   #69
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Yes, I measured the shaft and it's 0.591 which is the 4 cylinder shaft. I'm going to be using the Dee works retainer and his adapter kit. I will buy the slightly different bearing and shims, I really don't want to screw up the shimming. Haven't done it before though.
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Originally Posted by James M View Post
Throw up some pictures If you can. Just to make sure it's the same style of input shaft I'm thinking of. Did you measure the 4cly one to come to the conclusion it was one?

You'll also want a new bearing. Make sure to shim the input shaft correctly ( many videos go over this on YouTube ) or it won't last long
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Old 10-23-2020, 01:16 AM   #70
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I'm going to be using the Deeworks retainer but I don't think there's really any difference in the shimming process or anything. Thanks for the tips, feel a lot better ordering the shaft now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VB242 View Post
Just use some regular bearing grease to hold the bearings in place, you can reinstall it in the horizontal position. There's a big flat washer thing that sits on the shims from what I remember. Definitely YouTube it to see what you need to do. I would order the peel away shim kit and re- shim it. I just kept taking out shim slices until it was tight and not binding but there's a way to actually measure it, again watch the YouTube video.
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Old 10-23-2020, 05:40 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James M View Post
I've seen your autocross videos, quite the beating

Do you have pictures of it before setting it up for a volvo? I was under the impression nissan got the NWC units as most of those guys seem to hate them, quoting NWC torque specs. I've yet to read anything about nissan guys having luck using ford units. But if you can take a nissan unit and set it up with the 5.0 input shaft it's gotta be compatible???

How long is the tail shaft housing? Same 28 spline output shaft?


%99 of what i've read out of the nissan community is ****ting on the T5, https://datsunzgarage.us/borg/ This is the only page praising it over their
It does list the pre 89 units as NWC, and the z32 never got a T5 so It seems yours is either not a WC unit, or not a 300zx unit,? Or I'm missing somthing, got the case tag?

edit- From this link


Well **** I guess you can swap ford and nissan input shafts?
It's an '86 I believe, NWC for sure I think the tag was 1342 but not 100% sure. Guy I bought it from said it was holding 15psi in his 300ZX, but 4th gear synchronizer doesn't work. I bought a rebuild kit specifically for this T5 and have tried 2 of the synchronizers out of the kit with no luck. I've given up on that and just double clutch 4th gear. I think the tail shaft must be longer, I had to cut and weld the shift lever in a Z shape and do a little hammering to the end of the transmission tunnel to make it work in my 242.
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Old 10-25-2020, 09:44 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by vegiguy View Post
Being a manual NA car from the mid-80's I'm fairly confident my car has the 3.31 rear axle ratio so I don't think that would work with the .68 overdrive gear very well.

I think ideally you would want whatever rear axle ratio that allows the engine to turn at a good rpm for highway driving and four or five closely spaced gears, with the highest one being 1:1. An overdrive gear just bogs down the engine when you shift into it and doesn't let it accelerate very well so you end up having to shift down for passing, going up steep hills, etc., Plus when you have one in a transmission the rest of the gears get spaced out more so you're not as able to keep the engine running in its ideal power band. I doubt many top level race cars run overdrive gears.
Well....I'm about to find out on this one. When I went down that road with my swap, I was thinking that it would make for decent interstate cruising (70-80mph). I'm less concerned about acceleration with an N/A brick...

I've just got a few odds&ends to wrap up, and then it'll be back on the road...
Just a quick follow-up on this. As previously mentioned, the gearing match-up in the box is definitely taller. For the performance-minded individual, you would definitely want a lower rear-end.

Personally, with my project, I'm less concerned with acceleration/performance.

I will say, I've read a lot of stories/conjecture on weird vibrations and noise associated with the T5 box and driveshaft setup. I went with a stock 2-piece, shortened with a normal slip-yoke. I pretty much just eye-balled the driveshaft alignment, so I could get it out on the road. So far, with around 20 minutes of drive time, I'm very pleased. None of the aforementioned side-effects. In 5th gear, @ 70mph, it spins at ~2200rpms. But it still cruises smoothly. It leaves from the line like it normally would....except I'm not worried that it will disintegrate if I give it too much gas. If I want to pass someone on a 2 lane road, I'm pretty sure I'd need to downshift....but I'm pretty sure I'd need to do that anyway with the m47.
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Old 11-04-2020, 03:44 AM   #73
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I'm still gathering parts and figuring out how I'm going to make this work. I did get my adapter designed and bought a large chunk of aluminum but haven't had time to machine it yet. I'll just have to see how i like the gearing once I get to that point.

I got the driveshaft off of the Mustang the gearbox was in. It's really large in diameter - bigger than the one on my Firebird even and I've never had trouble with vibration on that car. I suspect some of the complaints about vibrations happening with one piece driveshafts are due to the driveshaft being out of balance. All the old GM cars that I've owned - as well as this old Mopar I'm working on - that have had long one piece driveshafts have run very smoothly in the drivetrain department.
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Old 11-04-2020, 07:17 AM   #74
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There's a reason 2 piece driveshaft are used
https://themustangsource.com/1-piece...veshaft-12660/
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Old 11-05-2020, 03:03 AM   #75
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There's a reason 2 piece driveshaft are used
https://themustangsource.com/1-piece...veshaft-12660/
That reasoning seems mainly theoretical: I have never seen the problems mentioned in that article on cars that had properly balanced one-piece driveshafts. Cars and trucks have been built with one-piece driveshafts for the better part of a century now - if this was such a bad design it would have been abandoned a long time ago. Two-piece driveshafts are a good example of over-engineering and they just end up giving you more parts to wear out eventually, such as the center support bearing.
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