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Can't drop AT pan

B

Billh

Member
Joined
May 6, 2005
Location
SoCal
My 91 745t has 134K miles. The AT has no issues. I don't know when the AT filter was last changed. The drained fluid was an unsurprisingly dark color. I've read on this forum that because of likely rust on the filler tube connection at the AT, it might be better to leave the filler tube connected and drop pan.

First I tried removing the 2 starter bolts which the 2 filler tube brackets are held in place by. My 600 ft lb impact gun could not loosen either bolt. Them I used crows foot wrenches with 1/2" breaker bar and long handle ratchet on the tube connector at the AT. Couldn't break anything loose. I tried the impact gun once more for a longer time but no loosened bolts.

Any suggestions?
 
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First you have to spray penetrating fluid between the two nuts on the dipstick tube to the pan.. Who knows when they were last undone, if ever

I have removed the pan both ways, and I prefer disconnecting the dipstick tube from the pan. You must be careful to not wreck the pan as the smaller one is welded to the pan, the larger one is the one to loosen. It's tough, but it can be done. Get two good fitting wrenches, put pressure on the inner one to stop it turning whilst loosening the outer one. Once it's fully loose, pull it free
 
If it's absolutely stuck, one can also use a miniature pipe cutter (the kind that you screw on and spin) to cut the dipstick tube. Do it below the starter bolts (so the upper section is still supported) but as high as possible so as to avoid putting the subsequent re-connection under the fluid level.

I don't recommend this as it's a great spot for it to leak in the future - but it's also less leaky than a hole in your pan, so it's your judgement call to make. Probably one of the dodgiest things I've ever done to my own car.

I reconnected mine with oil rated hose and clamps, but some kind of metal compression fitting would almost certainly last longer. Certainly don't try this without giving the proper removal options a shot... I suspect those starter bolts will come out if you try hard enough, and they're easier to extract and source than the pan.
 
hessam69:I had thought about penetrating fluid. These are long bolts going through AT housing and starter housing. Only about 1/4" of bolt end thread is exposed. No nuts. I may spray some on just to go through exercise but, in this case, I'm not optimistic.

The connector on my car is the opposite of what you describe. The larger 30mm nut is closest to AT and the smaller 24mm nut is on the outside and looks like the one that would turn. I can use penetrating fluid here as well to see if it helps.

And thoughts about using crows foot wrench and impact gun on the outer nut at the AT connection. I thought the filler tube was aluminum and was concerned about distorting it. I just went out and sprayed everything with PF. I checked with a magnet and the tube, connector nuts and the pan are all steel. So unless I'm advised against it, tomorrow I'll try the 24mm crows foot wrench/impact gun combo on the outer nut and brace the 30mm inside nut with a crows foot wrench/long handle ratchet combo.

Any thoughts on using heat to break the connector nut loose?
 
Khrrck: I like the pipe cutter idea. I have a small pipe cutter with a max capacity of 5/8" and it fits nicely on the filler tube. Tomorrow I'll try to succeed with one of the two traditional options but now I have a doable plan B.
 
Put an adjustable wrench tightly on the pan side counterhold hex, with the handle facing the front of the car. Then put a scissor jack under the end of the handle and raise it just until the wrench is wedged firmly in place. Then put another adjustable wrench or a tight fitting box wrench on the dipstick nut and push that one counterclockwise as hard as you can.
You need to use the counterhold to make sure the pan side hex doesn't rotate, because if it does you'll need a new pan. I was able to put it back on without the jack under the counterhold wrench (which would be closer to the rear of the car if you need it for that step) and not have it leak. But I really had to pound the crap out of that wrench to crack it loose.
 
iamrolling: what kind of mating or sealing surface is present here? Is the tube end a flair that meets a receiving surface? When you got yours apart was there corrosion or pitting from rust that might make getting a sealed connection difficult?

Hadn't thought about using a scissors jack to wedge the wrench. Good suggestion.
 
Nothing but threads. I think it's tapered on the pan side, and I'm pretty sure the tube is flared because the nut was captive on the end. I had a leak-free seal way before the nut made it to the end of the threads. No noticeable corrosion on mine, but I can't say for sure that they're all like that.
 
I bet my new SnapOn 1/2" electric impact with a fresh battery could break it free. My coworker won a bet that his would break a crank pulley bolt free that the other guy couldn't with a long breaker bar.

I have dealt with several stripped/cross threaded dipstick tubes and drain bolts. Maybe TRY to get the dipstick tube free first, and if you detect trouble, bail out and opt for leaving it on there. It also may help to unbolt the trans crossmember to get a straighter angle at the bolts. You may wanna remove the dist because it will crunch it against the firewall. Support the trans with a jack. You may wanna unbolt the driveshaft and disconnect the shift linkage so you don't bend/break anything. I've done it.

Are you in the SD area? I am.
 
1+ ZVOLV
The connection between the tube and the pan is pita.
I've seen all:
stripped threads
broken pan
bent tubes
and sometimes it won't seal again.

I prefer to remove the pan including dipstick tube

good luck, Kay
 
Yesterday, after I was stymied, I thought about just refilling and be done with it. But I still would like to change the filter. This is my plan C.

No one has commented on Khirck's solution: cut the tube as far as possible above the fill line. Perhaps I'm underestimating the leak potential but connecting 2 solidly installed steel tubes, which are almost always empty and under no pressure, with a piece of fuel line doesn't seem like a bad solution. This is still my plan B.

So I'm about to begin todays effort with plan A and see if I can make progress with either of the 2 standard pan removal options.
 
Billh said:
Yesterday, after I was stymied, I thought about just refilling and be done with it. But I still would like to change the filter. This is my plan C.

No one has commented on Khirck's solution: cut the tube as far as possible above the fill line. Perhaps I'm underestimating the leak potential but connecting 2 solidly installed steel tubes, which are almost always empty and under no pressure, with a piece of fuel line doesn't seem like a bad solution. This is still my plan B.

So I'm about to begin todays effort with plan A and see if I can make progress with either of the 2 standard pan removal options.
Click to expand...

you are a glutton for unproductive punishment.
 
Billh said:
Yesterday, after I was stymied, I thought about just refilling and be done with it. But I still would like to change the filter. This is my plan C.
Click to expand...

Wait, you're just doing this to change the filter?

The "filter" on these is a mesh screen... catches big chunks, nothing more. I replaced mine when I took the pan off, but it was a waste of time.

Drain and fill... leave the pan for when the kickdown cable snaps or something like that.
 
Khrrck said:
Wait, you're just doing this to change the filter?

The "filter" on these is a mesh screen... catches big chunks, nothing more. I replaced mine when I took the pan off, but it was a waste of time.
Click to expand...
I was just about to say that, then scrolled down and saw your reply.

Of course, I usually add a pretty picture! :neener:

BA0440207-3__ra_p.jpg
 
You may break more stuff than you fix. I agree.

On my most recent turbobrick purchase, I just stuffed my fluid evacuator hose down the dipstick tube and sucked the pan dry and did a refill. I may do it again soon. However, with the boost cranked on E85, 16T turbo, and IPD cam, I can feel it starting to slip. Time to install the M90!
 
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