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Old 10-17-2011, 01:38 AM   #176
qwkswede
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I was thinking about one of these myself.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-63750/

Then you don't have to plumb anything, just find a place to mount the electric drive motor.

Running electric driven stuff for the street seems a bit annoying, but the constant water flow rate might be an interesting experiment.

I have no idea what a good flow rate might be though....
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:56 AM   #177
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interesting thread.

maybe monitoring / logging the pressure at the freeze plugs vs. other parts of the block may be in order, or maybe running pressure relief system for just the freeze plugs alone. Seems a little bit over the top. Probably addressing the underlying flaw with the cooling system should be the #1 priority in fixing rather than going off the deep end.

Further more what's the reason for drilling the extra holes in the head? I kinda skimmed through the the thread, but the drilling the holes in the head kinda didn't make sense for me.

Another interesting thing would be to see if the b204 or b234f turbo'd engines have this same cooling problem at higher rpms. I'm guessing yes, since the design of the cooling system is pretty much the same as the b230 / b2x design.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:08 PM   #178
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I didn't see this comment about 115psi before. But I now want to put a pressure gauge on the Volvo block water jackets and watch this.

I started this thread and now after the weekend in SE I confirmed that 2 other 16 valve cars have the same exact symptom as my car. My problem only appeared when I installed cams in the engine that let it rev beyond 7000rpm. Linuxmans car blew coolant out of the resivoir and the water was only lukewarm. The thermostat may not have been open now that I think about it. Hockey's car ejected the freeze plugs and the datalogs show that it was on a clean pull to 7300 rpm. I don't think he ever revved it that high on the street in the past so this might have been a case of just too many rpms...

So when my car runs soon, I want to try a pressure gauge on the block and toy around with running without a thermostat. And maybe try running a nice constant speed electric water pump drive too.


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Lots of subjects in here, but I do want to address one - coolant pressure in the block at high rpm. A few posters have incorrectly assumed that the pressure in the block can never exceed the radiator cap pressure. If they'd draw a rudimentary cooling system diagram, they'd note that the cap is not installed between the pump and flow limiting orifice (thermostat) but on the "low pressure side" of the system, between the thermostat and the inlet to the pump.

I mention this because I have seen a number of people blow heater cores on small-block Fords... myself included. So I actually hooked up a pressure gauge in the engine block of my old 289 and left it installed for a month. What an eye-opener!

I would have never guessed that a stamped-steel impeller blade could ever be very efficient at making pressure, but wow... before the thermostat opens, I'd see 115 psi (yes, one hundred and fifteen) in the engine block / heater core at 6000 rpm! Of course, once the 'stat was fully open, my readings never exceeded radiator cap pressure by more than a couple psi.

It is quite dependent on impeller design. I also tested my Kawasaki motorcycle with an impeller that looks a lot like our turbo compressor wheels, and was surprised to only see that one create 7 psi pressure (above cap pressure) at 5000 rpm and the thermostat closed.

By the way, that plot of pressure vs. rpm on my 289 had a nice "squared-with-rpm" trend... so the difference between 6000 and 7500 rpm is substantial.

Seemed like this data needed to be posted as I've seen a number of posts here over the last year that ask if anyone has measured pressure, and it didn't seem like anyone had ever chimed in with test results. So there are mine, for two non-Volvo applications. Hope that helps.
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Old 10-17-2011, 12:29 PM   #179
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Ever since I drilled the holes in the head, ran that programmable 3/8 bypass, and run the stock balancer with stock large water pump pulley.......there have been zero issues. Probably 12 dyno pulls, multiple daily abusises, and wot to 7500 at 27psi of boost at the drags.

I did the holes in the head because the stock gasket was failing at them points. There is 3 holes in the block/gasket that are not in the head, and each blind hole the fire ring was moving towards the chamber. There is pics in my build thread somewhere.

Ill be installing a cometic soon and will report back with how the Elring gasket is doing.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:14 PM   #180
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It is hard for me to see where you are relieving the block pressure from... Somewhere on the passenger side under the turbo?
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:24 PM   #181
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There is a 1/4 inch pipe hole in the block between cylinders 1-2. Almost a short circuit on the pump when the system is open. I aslo pull water from the back of the head on the intake side.
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Old 10-17-2011, 02:37 PM   #182
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people turn 8v's this high of rpm and don't have problems, kinda surprising it causes these problems on 16v and they basically use the same parts minus the head
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:10 PM   #183
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more than a few have chimed in recently with issues in the 8v world.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:12 AM   #184
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Default No problem because of too high pressure

Hello, I'm Kay from North of Germany. Sorry for my bad English. I know this kind of problem. It is not because of to high pressure in coolant system. A very common problem on turbo charged engines are vibrations at high revolutions.
We had this problems at Porsche with 924 GTA too.
This engines did run without head gasket! Seal block and head. two water pumps. even at this engine the core hole close caps went out.
sometimes even the hole block cracked.
At VW we did test on the dyno and have a closer look via hologram on the engine while running. The vibrations are amazing!!!!!

I will try to find something in my papers, but this was long long time ago. Cheers, Kay
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:13 AM   #185
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Welcome Kay, your english isn't that bad.

If you've got any information on the harmonics issue, that would be very interesting to see! Most of the crew here won't have access to the test equipment you mention, so I'm sure seeing what you may have available would be awesome!
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #186
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Welcome Kay, your english isn't that bad.

If you've got any information on the harmonics issue, that would be very interesting to see! Most of the crew here won't have access to the test equipment you mention, so I'm sure seeing what you may have available would be awesome!
plus 100,000 ! That information would be great !
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:03 AM   #187
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Default Nono, not my equipment

Hello, nono, this is not my equipment, for bad luck.
I was a student and did practise at Porsche in the beginning of the 80's as a "work-student"

This problem of vibrations is only on 4cyl high running turbo charged engines.
We(they) destroyed nearby everything on the dyno.
At this time the computers were slow, no digicams etc.
The core plugs were welded for shure. We lost on the racetrack the part of engine case where the year and month of cast is noticed.
On dyno with hologram and strobo you could see this thing moving!!!! and shaking. Grind it away and problem solved, strange thing.
I did have a workshop for historic race cars and restoration, a lot of tools are still with me. Hard to find things too, like ignition distributor test stands (4x) Bosch and 3 Souriau. A huge improvement on race cars you can do by modifying the ignition.
Back to the article:
You have mass-forces in 1. and 2. grade in engines. 1. is all the moving parts without combustion etc. 2. is with combustion and firing up, the running and power producing engine.
The 2. grade forces on turbo powered 4cyl are amazing and really difficult to handle.
I try to find informations in my documents. The way we fixed it is not in my head anymore, too long time ago.
cheers, Kay
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:54 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mocambique-amazone View Post
Hello, nono, this is not my equipment, for bad luck.
I was a student and did practise at Porsche in the beginning of the 80's as a "work-student"

This problem of vibrations is only on 4cyl high running turbo charged engines.
We(they) destroyed nearby everything on the dyno.
At this time the computers were slow, no digicams etc.
The core plugs were welded for shure. We lost on the racetrack the part of engine case where the year and month of cast is noticed.
On dyno with hologram and strobo you could see this thing moving!!!! and shaking. Grind it away and problem solved, strange thing.
I did have a workshop for historic race cars and restoration, a lot of tools are still with me. Hard to find things too, like ignition distributor test stands (4x) Bosch and 3 Souriau. A huge improvement on race cars you can do by modifying the ignition.
Back to the article:
You have mass-forces in 1. and 2. grade in engines. 1. is all the moving parts without combustion etc. 2. is with combustion and firing up, the running and power producing engine.
The 2. grade forces on turbo powered 4cyl are amazing and really difficult to handle.
I try to find informations in my documents. The way we fixed it is not in my head anymore, too long time ago.
cheers, Kay
Sounds like the raised number portion cast into the block was what is referred to as a "stress riser", I take it?

I've read lots of " How To Hot Rod A BBC /SBC Engine" and grinding all the casting flashing/and such, from engine block was always recommended
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:33 PM   #189
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Wow very interesting! I have a radiator out of a 89 toyota supra (aftermarket fluidyne from summit) and twin flexallite electric fans, huge intercooler from mk4 supra and separate trans cooler.
I removed the expansion tank and i have a 16 pound rad cap. Ive eliminated the heater core. My radiator always dumps out 1/5 of the coolant now matter how much i burp it. So i let the coolant run at this level and it lives happy seeing 25 psi at most on lh 2.4 . I have always wondered why it cannot keep the radiator full to the top. My thought was it needs a higher pressure cap, but as far as i know the highest ive found is 16psi . I rev to 7100 rpm some times. Havent had a freeze plug issue yet . And its a original "sat in a junkyard for 5 years" na motor. Never had the head seperated.
I have noticed that it always pushes the coolant out at idle when the car is sitting still (after i fill it completely) and it doesnt seem to be from hi temp, as the water is warm.




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Old 10-24-2012, 08:07 PM   #190
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It would probably cost a good bit but, I wonder if it's possible to port the water channels using a media blaster... Kinda like what they do for stock cast manifolds in restricted race classes. And it's already been covered but.... A Universal Electric Water pump with a special outlet from the block would also work very nicely and never be overspun due to the High RPM.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:04 PM   #191
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Default Volvo freeze plugs??

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Originally Posted by Stereophile33 View Post
I'm going to chime in a bit here.

1. In any motor we build we only use stock VOLVO freeze plugs. Early on I used dorman and other aftermarket stuff and they would seemingly push out. Started using volvo stuff and have yet to have one come out. All that to say we stock volvo factory freeze plugs now and its all we use.

.
Not 100% sure until I sneak in there better later but I believe I blew a freeze plug if it's not a heater hose.... where do you aquire the Volvo freeze plugs? I definitely don't want to put a sh*t one in that will blow out on the highway since I often take long trips.
...and I don't mean long trips with cruise control on. I enjoy my long trips.
My closest dealer is 4 hours away before you say 'ask dealer'
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:59 PM   #192
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dealers can mail them. if you blew a freeze plug out on a nearly stock setup, you've blown a headgasket as well.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:37 PM   #193
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Yea... we determined that in my thread about overboosting. Workin on replacin the head gasket soon. I would like to make sure there is no air in my system when I refill the coolant tho. Anyone know where the drain cock is? I had heat when the gasket blew on my 2 minutes ride home, now that I've refilled the system to check for leaks I noticed there is no heat. I had the car on max heat while checking for leaks to make sure it didn't overheat anything. I assume there is nothing but air in my heater core.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:41 PM   #194
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Drain petcock is on pass side of engine block under #4 clyinder exhaust port halfway down the block

Refill radiator with one gallon and run engine while pouring in the 2nd gallon helps . Make sure T Stat's "piddle valve is 100% to top/highest point when ya put the t stat in.
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Old 11-05-2012, 08:17 PM   #195
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THIS is what I use, and I believe everyone should... could bet trapped air is a likely candidate for why some of these folks are having such issues.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:13 PM   #196
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I know this thread has been down for a while now but I think we may have over looked something simple. I was looking at the design of the t stat and the over all cooling system . This is what I notice. When the t stat opens it opens to the pressurized side of the cooling system. So say a lot of pressure was to build up on the back side of it (say during a high rpm pull) I could see the t stat being held close and cause bad stuff to happen. Now I could be wrong but it seems it could be a issue. Any thoughts
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:40 PM   #197
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its not really. when the t stat is closed, it circs back to the pump via the head, so when the spring heats up and the t stat opens, its opening with coolant flow, so it alsmot helps it. and them springs are pretty strong.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:52 PM   #198
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dont forget the bypass hole with the gigler too
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Old 09-26-2013, 06:35 PM   #199
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I wanted to add a couple thoughts. The metal line that runs on the exhaust side of the block-to the water pump. That thing is very close to the exhaust manifold and is seeing quite a bit of heat, is that the feed for the pump? Either way i think that could be replaced with a hose better suited to run below that hot area.Not being heat soaked by block heat and turbo exhaust manifold heat could be a good thing! The other thing is the block coolant holes in the head gaskets. I'm not a engineer, but I have opened up all the coolant ports from block to head, that the headgasket originally had blocked off or made smaller. It made things a little better, however i need to change that metal line on the exhaust side going to the water pump. My temp rises after various high boost runs over a period of time, or sitting at a traffic light after 40 minutes of driving with a/c on. I have sneaking suspicion of the metal pipe getting way too heat soaked...You can see the pipe in the picture and how it can get so hot with a exhaust manifold sitting right on top of it-especially a turbo manifold....

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Old 10-12-2013, 04:19 PM   #200
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I had a few questions and wanted input as well. When i get the new motor in dont want cooling issues. Setup wil be as follows. Going into 92 940. B230 8V Bored to 96.5mm. RSI Pistons. 158 MM H beams. Forged 2.5 Crank. Crank origins are stil a mystery but the best ID i have is a John parker crank. I have a 3 pulley Alum balancer.

What diamter WP pulley am i looking for? I have a 92 940 pulley in the DD. 8V head with Group A holes. Im have a .036 cometic. Slugs are poking out .006.

I bought the Roger Dee Freeze plug kit and work @ the dealer so have access to OEM plugs and tools. While i have this thing apart what else can i do to help cool it? I have a ton of heat wrap left from my brother Audi TT build and will use that to insulate that pipe on the exhaust side. I have a Ford heater core in the works for ghetto heat with heater control valve removed. Anything im missing?
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