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sway bar combinations

This is something I have long not understood. When I setup a car (car, not a truck) I usually want to error on the side of oversteer. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=oversteer.../i.ytimg.com/vi/EwmDdMzzDjY/maxresdefault.jpg

To that end, on my 245 I went with the IPD Aluminum skid plate:
https://www.ipdusa.com/products/5197/106365-volvo-aluminum-skid-plate-240-ipd-106365
That did a great job tightening up the front end.
25mm Sway bar front and stock (19) rear.
It makes for a very well balanced car with a touch of oversteer.

Another thing I have also done in the past is lowered front springs and overload rear springs which shifts the weight to be more on the front tires giving them more say in which direction the car is headed giving it better feel, and control.

On some setups I have completely removed the rear sway bar to help the rear end to sit more on the sides of the tires and slide around when you want it to. I have had my Porsche 911 Setup like this for ~7 years. Makes for a fantastic drive.

All that to say, IPD was very hesitant to sell me only the front 25mm sway bar and not the rear one, too.
This is the part I do no understand. Why would they want to force you back into an understeer setup?

Does that all make sense?

Andrew
 
ams said:
This is something I have long not understood. When I setup a car (car, not a truck) I usually want to error on the side of oversteer. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=oversteer.../i.ytimg.com/vi/EwmDdMzzDjY/maxresdefault.jpg

To that end, on my 245 I went with the IPD Aluminum skid plate:
https://www.ipdusa.com/products/5197/106365-volvo-aluminum-skid-plate-240-ipd-106365
That did a great job tightening up the front end.
25mm Sway bar front and stock (19) rear.
It makes for a very well balanced car with a touch of oversteer.

Another thing I have also done in the past is lowered front springs and overload rear springs which shifts the weight to be more on the front tires giving them more say in which direction the car is headed giving it better feel, and control.

On some setups I have completely removed the rear sway bar to help the rear end to sit more on the sides of the tires and slide around when you want it to. I have had my Porsche 911 Setup like this for ~7 years. Makes for a fantastic drive.

All that to say, IPD was very hesitant to sell me only the front 25mm sway bar and not the rear one, too.
This is the part I do no understand. Why would they want to force you back into an understeer setup?

Does that all make sense?

Andrew
Click to expand...

I have exactly this set up for my 242: 25/19. With Lesjofors lowering springs and red Koni's.
 
You're sure you don't have things backwards? Usually a larger front bar induces understeer and larger rear bar oversteer.
Car will have 40mm lowering springs and GAZ adjustable shocks if that makes a difference.
 
I have 23/21 on my daily 245 with stock springs and struts/shocks. Better than the stock 21/19 or 21/16 or whatever it was.

Our 245 LeMons car has 23/16, cut springs and cheap shocks/struts. Small bar to help it hook up in the rear. I guess it helps? Car handles well and "punches well above its weight".
 
To a degree it depends on the set up. In general terms, VolvoGLT has it correct with his statement. "You're sure you don't have things backwards? Usually a larger front bar induces understeer and larger rear bar oversteer."

There are too many other factors to take into account in order to just give a a bar size to run. The spring rates front and rear are the biggest factor. Damping rates come into the mix next. Camber and toe also affect understeer/oversteer. Then, you have contact patch area front and rear. So many things to consider.

I don't do anything performance wise with 240s. Kyle is a good reference for these questions.
 
VolvoGLT said:
You're sure you don't have things backwards? Usually a larger front bar induces understeer and larger rear bar oversteer.
Car will have 40mm lowering springs and GAZ adjustable shocks if that makes a difference.
Click to expand...
You are correct. Sorry for the short answer before, I was short on time and it’s really about personal preference.

Of the combos you listed, I would probably run the 23/21 combo. Your springs sound like some off the shelf lowering springs, so that means the spring rate will not likely be anything special. Increase your cars handling performance by adding more roll stiffness without much noticeable ride quality penalty by putting on the largest anti-swaybars you can. You are talking about factory parts here, so nothing is “too aggressive”.

People who suggest running a smaller rear swaybar usually do it because it can help increase inside rear wheel traction. This lets you apply power to accelerate out of the turns sooner. Aka, it can be faster, assuming the car doesn’t “push”/understeer so badly it’s actually slower.

If you feel you have too much inside wheel spin, you can quickly and easily slap your factory rear bar back on and see if you like that better. Personally, I like the more athletic feeling car that a larger rear swaybar brings, but I also have a limited slip differential and Ben’s roll correction parts for the front suspension. My car is also lowered more, though.

For what it’s worth, I’ve run 25/25 and all sorts of smaller combinations. Right now I have a 25/22 setup but feel like I want a 25 rear bar again. Maybe one day. Or I’ll play with spring rates.

To help rear wheel traction/rear axle articulation, make sure you don’t have Polyurethane lower trailing arm bushings, or torque rod bushings.
 
Thanks for the replies so far! Springs are off the shelf TA Technix with a linear rate (but don't know how much). Will be using Ben's spherical trailing arm bushings and roll center correction arms (when they are back in stock) - so articulation of the rear axle is not compromised.
 
Sounds like a great setup. You won’t know what works for you until you try it! If you want to go to the track, some tracks may want a different swaybar than another.

Again, I would go with the still small, factory turbo setup of 23/21mm.
 
With 300ish wheel rate, I like 23/19 on the street.
For rallycross with similar rates, I like no bars, or add a skinny front or rear depending on how ill it is handling and whether I want to change springs (I sometimes went to 400 front)
For stock springs, IPD can be a big help.
For super stiff springs and a smooth road/race track, IPD are probably great.
That said, I have never been a fan of the rear bar set up.
 
I'll try both setups with 23mm bar then (21 and 19 rear) and see what I like best. No rallyecross, just spirited street driving ;)

@Ben: will you have the QSRC arms back in stock in the next few days or is there another delay? Thanks :)
 
VolvoGLT said:
I'll try both setups with 23mm bar then (21 and 19 rear) and see what I like best. No rallyecross, just spirited street driving ;)

@Ben: will you have the QSRC arms back in stock in the next few days or is there another delay? Thanks :)
Click to expand...

Getting close.
 
25/19 here with Bilstein HDs and ~170lb wheel rates F/R on my 940. Could use more front roll stiffness. Tried the IPD rear bar and got sick of one tire fires everywhere.
 
VolvoGLT said:
Which combo (front/rear) do you prefer on a 244?

23mm/21mm
21mm/21mm
21mm/19mm
23mm/19mm
Click to expand...

You missed a real nice combination for a street driven car. 21/23. It only came on the 1979 GT. The 79 model also had stiffer springs in the front. They drove neutral. No understeer or oversteer.
 
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