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Old 01-06-2017, 07:46 PM   #301
lookforjoe
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Originally Posted by boosted12a View Post
i used a 6 Cyl j somthingn or other ignighter from a mitsubishi and it works just fine. i ran the tach out put to the stock tach wire on the powerstage plug(red/white) and i also had to wire in the dummy relay to get the tach to work.
I didn't pay attention to the fact that the J723T power stage was for 6 cyl - I found that the tach signal from it doesn't work with my tach either. Added the relay with transistor - 86 to +, 85 to tach feed, 30 to ground. I still have the stock powerstage wired, so powerstage pin 1 feeds into the tach circuit via the original coil (1) terminal. I didn't need to add the EZK pulse signal. Without the ground, the tach didn't seem to register correctly. Have to tidy up all the wiring now.

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Old 01-06-2017, 09:07 PM   #302
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Default Wasted Spark Distribution

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Originally Posted by Dannyt0186 View Post
Is it just me or are people having problems getting a hold of Karl? Ordered my board from him and still no dice.???
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Originally Posted by MrD View Post
Ditto
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Originally Posted by bgpzfm142 View Post
Not good. Not good. I'd like to order 3 of these boards, which are needed for various projects.
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Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
It sucks because I really wanted to buy another board or two from Karl, but thankfully it looks like Fabian/Blabla will be selling an alternative.
Hey Guys,

Very soon I will be taking over distribution of the Buchka Wasted Spark boards from Karl. I'll handle all the sales and shipping. Watch for details soon. Just wanted to let you guys know they will be available again!

Thanks,
Chris (aka Duder, aka CFlo)
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:50 AM   #303
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Nice to know Chris.
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Old 01-07-2017, 06:33 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duder View Post
Hey Guys,

Very soon I will be taking over distribution of the Buchka Wasted Spark boards from Karl. I'll handle all the sales and shipping. Watch for details soon. Just wanted to let you guys know they will be available again!

Thanks,
Chris (aka Duder, aka CFlo)
Cool. Is there a list of outstanding orders yet to be fulfilled?

edit: I recieved a refund from Karl :thumbsup:

Last edited by MrD; 01-08-2017 at 05:09 PM.. Reason: update
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:17 PM   #305
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Just to clear Karl's name, he has given me a refund and a honest apology regarding the issue. Great guy, but it's a shame I couldn't get my chip since I already have all the pieces....... no 2-step on bti boards..... .....*sigh*
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:56 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duder View Post
Hey Guys,

Very soon I will be taking over distribution of the Buchka Wasted Spark boards from Karl. I'll handle all the sales and shipping. Watch for details soon. Just wanted to let you guys know they will be available again!
That's awesome news. I appreciate you're a busy man, but do you have a timeframe of when you'll be ready to rock and roll with these boards?

Edit/update: To answer my own question, a very short timeframe. Well done!

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Last edited by bgpzfm142; 01-11-2017 at 09:04 AM.. Reason: updated
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:33 AM   #307
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Switched to Bosch powerstage.






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Originally Posted by malloy1 View Post

This should be the setup using these two parts:

Out From EZK: -> Into 203:____ Out From 203: -> Into 407:
1-4 output -------> Pin 2 _________ Pin 1 -------> Pin 3
2-3 output -------> Pin 7 _________ Pin 6 -------> Pin 1

Paul
This doesn't jive with the BTI indicated layout for connections between PS and coil - I wired mine following your layout & had to reverse the coil wires for it to run. It would seem I/O pins 2&1 are for 2,3 cyl, and 7&6 are for 1,4 cyl




Edit: Nevermind, the inputs from the board to the powerstage are reversed between the two schematics - that would account for it. My mistake was using your schematic as the wiring reference

Last edited by lookforjoe; 01-12-2017 at 09:39 AM..
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Old 01-20-2017, 05:34 PM   #308
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German DIN plugs! Double back up.

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Old 02-11-2017, 03:30 PM   #309
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fyi, I received parts from both BTI and CFlo in a timely manner.

I was able to get my wasted spark up and running with no issues. All parts very finely made and both were very easy to do business with.

The engine revs very smoothly out to 4500rpm. Too scarrred to take it out past 5k with 183,000 miles on it.







pics don't show :(
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Old 02-11-2017, 05:24 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by MrD View Post
fyi, I received parts from both BTI and CFlo in a timely manner.

I was able to get my wasted spark up and running with no issues. All parts very finely made and both were very easy to do business with.

The engine revs very smoothly out to 4500rpm. Too scarrred to take it out past 5k with 183,000 miles on it.

pics don't show :(
Awesome, glad to hear it! Nice installation too. Do you mind sharing a part number for the plug wire kit you used?

I re-hosted the pics. Looks like dropbox has some issues.





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Old 02-11-2017, 07:16 PM   #311
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Those look like the wires I picked up from NAPA for my kit
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:21 AM   #312
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Thanks! I received the wire harness from Fabian at BTI. It's custom made and high quality. The internal end is a 4 pin microphone style connector. There is also a branch that runs over to the OEM coil. That end has a spade for power and a terminal for a relay.
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Old 02-13-2017, 01:37 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by MrD View Post
Thanks! I received the wire harness from Fabian at BTI. It's custom made and high quality. The internal end is a 4 pin microphone style connector. There is also a branch that runs over to the OEM coil. That end has a spade for power and a terminal for a relay.
No problem. Maybe it wasn't obvious from what I wrote, but I was asking about the spark plug wires.
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Old 02-13-2017, 06:54 AM   #314
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No problem. Maybe it wasn't obvious from what I wrote, but I was asking about the spark plug wires.
Lol, not sure why I read wire harness! I received the plug set from BTI too, no part numbers.
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:47 PM   #315
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FWIW: DIS ("waste spark" ) Ignition Systems Require Special Spark Plugs
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Old 03-15-2017, 07:31 AM   #316
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Here if somebody needs a wiring diagram
http://www.lintsi.info/wx/volvo/lh_2...ark-wiring.jpg

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Old 03-15-2017, 10:47 AM   #317
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Unlike conventional ignition systems, waste spark DIS ignition systems use half the spark to fire the opposite spark plug unconventionally from the side electrode to the center electrode. Copper core standard plugs and copper core single platinum spark plugs are not designed to withstand this reverse polarity firing and will suffer premature gap growth due to center electrode erosion.
There's nothing special about "how" the wasted spark system fires the plug. They fire normally, but twice as often. Not sure how the author of the article above came up with the mumbo-jumbo about "reverse polarity firing" but yeah...that's not true.

Quote:
Gap growth will stress ignition system components by requiring more voltage to fire, eventually leading to misfire, loss of performance and fuel economy. This degradation can be noticeable as soon as 20,000 miles after the plug is installed.
This part is true, and perhaps what this refers to is plugs wearing out more quickly in a wasted spark application due to being fired once per engine revolution, or twice as many times as a plug in a non-wasted (sequential) ignition firing order.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:51 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Toni_ View Post
Here if somebody needs a wiring diagram
http://www.lintsi.info/wx/volvo/lh_2...ark-wiring.jpg
Thanks for posting that, Toni!
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Old 03-16-2017, 01:03 AM   #319
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There's nothing special about "how" the wasted spark system fires the plug.
I suggest reading this post (#7) here, in regards to a V-6 engine.

David is a professional mechanic, and also a GM "tuner." In short, he understands this tech.
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Old 03-16-2017, 05:15 PM   #320
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I suggest reading this post (#7) here, in regards to a V-6 engine.

David is a professional mechanic, and also a GM "tuner." In short, he understands this tech.
Ok, I see that explanation, but think about installing a wasted spark system on a Volvo redblock engine. We are using wasted spark (and not sequential coil-on-plug or otherwise) because there is no cam angle sensor to phase ignition timing to.

With a 2x2 coil pack and the Buchka board installed on the EZ117K system, we've got an alternating output from the EZK/WS controller, telling one of two circuits when to fire. Each set of coils has two outputs, paired as cyl. 1&4 and cyl. 2&3.

Within one of these circuits, how would the ignition system possibly "know" when to fire one cylinder with conventional polarity, and the other with reverse polarity? How would it allegedly switch between the two modes?

It can't know because there is no cam angle sensor to distinguish between compression stroke and exhaust stroke, which is why it's a wasted spark system in the first place...

I'm not an electrical engineer but I am a professional automotive engineer with over 12 years experience in the field, and I'm struggling to understand how that could possibly work.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:19 PM   #321
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Think series circuit:

block -> spark a -> coil -> spark b -> block

The current flow does not alternate... spark plug a is always ground to tip and spark b is always tip to ground.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:19 PM   #322
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but think about installing a wasted spark system on a Volvo redblock engine. We are using wasted spark.....
GM used wasted spark for years...I still own two vehicles with wasted spark.

Repair Guide - GM Cavalier/Sunbird/Skyhawk/Firenza 1982-1994

The Direct Ignition System (DIS) or Electronic Ignition (EI) is used on the 1987-92 2.0L (VIN 1 and H), 2.2L (VIN G and 4), and all 1987 and later 2.8L (VIN W) and 3.1L (VIN T) engines.

The DIS or EI system does not use the conventional distributor and ignition coil. The system consists of two (4-cylinder) or 3 (6-cylinder) separate ignition coils, an ignition module, DIS ignition module or Ignition Control Module (ICM) as applicable, crankshaft sensor or combination sensor, along with the related connecting wires and Electronic Spark Timing (EST) or Ignition Control (IC) portion of the computer control module (ECM/PCM).

The distributorless system uses a "waste spark" method of spark distribution. Companion cylinders are paired and the spark occurs simultaneously in the cylinder with the piston coming up on the compression stroke and in the companion cylinder with the piston coming up on the exhaust stroke.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:30 PM   #323
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The polarity of the current never changes for a given pair of spark plugs. One of the plugs in the pair will always have current flowing in the opposite direction of the other.

Here's a random diagram I found on google that illustrates the point: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-joUcEDP1M5...arkDiagram.jpg

The circuit for the secondary winding is being completed through the block and the current always flows in the same direction, which means one plug sees opposite current polarity of the other plug.

I have admittedly never given this much thought. If it means the plugs only last X miles instead of Y miles (where X is some 5 digit number) then I'm personally not bothered by it. It's a fair point though, and people should decide for themselves if it's worth getting special spark plugs.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:41 PM   #324
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With each pair of plugs running wasted spark, the spark on one plug always jumps normally and the spark on the other plug jumps in the opposite direction. For instance, in the 1-4 pair, #1 will always jump normally center to outer electrode, and #4 will always jump backwards outer to center electrode. The path of each spark will be the closest point between center and outer electrodes.

If you can find diagrams that show the internal wiring of an old fashioned single coil (used with a distributor), you'll see that one end of the primary and secondary windings is connected together. This is the return path for the spark energy. With a wasted spark coil pack, the two ends of the secondary winding are connected only to the spark plugs -- the coil gets charged up, the primary is disconnected, and the collapsing magnetic field generates the spark voltage across the secondary. To discharge, a spark needs to simultaneously form on both ends of the coil to complete the electrical path.

I've read the claims that special plugs are needed for wasted spark but I don't get it. Platinum plugs have a shortened center-to-outer electrode path such that the spark is always on the platinum. This allows the plugs to last for 100K miles. If you're going to inspect and change your plugs more frequently, standard copper plugs are fine for wasted spark. (I guess the sharpened electrodes on a platinum plug might be a bit better if you're fowling plugs.)
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Old 03-16-2017, 11:25 PM   #325
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Ok guys, sorry I misunderstood and thought that the argument was that the polarity was somehow being switched to alternately fire cylinder 1 & 4 as pos/neg then neg/pos, for example, within that circuit.

I understand that wasn't the claim now and I think we're all on the same page. The coil secondary circuits are grounded back to the opposite side of the same pair of coils.

Carry on...

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