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240 AW71 OD trouble

KeizerBrickGuy

KeizerBrickGuy

Sh*t pot stirrer
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Location
Keizer, OR
AW70 OD trouble

See post #60, I've got another related question

All right TurboBrickers.
Here's the skinny: My Wife's 244 has been acting up off and on for the last three months with the OD lockout indicator coming on randomly, but dimly and then going off, but the OD still functions. Over the last couple weeks it's become worse to where it's full intensity and sometimes will kick out of OD, sometimes it won't. I've checked the relay and solenoid for function as well as the button; the relay clicks, the solenoid clicks. Visually, the wiring looks good as well as the relay( I took it apart and inspected it and cleaned it, nothing). I found an OD relay and solenoid from a donor at the jy today and bench tested it for function and replaced the wire just to cover my bases. I have a strong 12v running at the female connector on the tranny. I'm thinking a short or a bad solenoid. What am I missing?

UPDATE:
I replaced the bullet connector as it was severely oxidized and corroded with a sealed spade connector. I figured why not double check the relay once more; found two fine cracks in the solder. Her cars OD is working again!
 
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Fluid level? Have to ask..., but I doubt it.


I'm wondering if you monitored current, I bet you could see if the solenoid, or circuit, was taking a dump or if were something mechanical.
 
If the lockout indicator is coming on then the problem is electrical. By far the most common cause of this is cracked solder joints in the overdrive relay which is located behind the dash to the left of the glove box.
 
ZVOLV said:
Fluid level? Have to ask..., but I doubt it.


I'm wondering if you monitored current, I bet you could see if the solenoid, or circuit, was taking a dump or if were something mechanical.
Click to expand...

I double checked the level and its good both cold and hot.

Otto Mattik said:
Kick down cable ?
Click to expand...

I readjusted it when I first got it(after the multiple drain and fills of the tranny so it would shift properly again. That's good.

James10952001 said:
If the lockout indicator is coming on then the problem is electrical. By far the most common cause of this is cracked solder joints in the overdrive relay which is located behind the dash to the left of the glove box.
Click to expand...

In the OP, I mentioned that I cleaned and inspected the solder joints and found none. I tried another relay I reflowed just for ****s and gigs and the problem still remains.

Thanks for all of the posts so far!
 
KeizerBrickGuy said:
AW71 OD trouble
Click to expand...

AW71? I looked at "wife's car" in the sig, and see 1990 244. Assuming stock AW70?

KeizerBrickGuy said:
I have a strong 12v running at the female connector on the tranny. I'm thinking a short or a bad solenoid. ?
Click to expand...

Could be that "strong 12v" appears when things are working. But in the 1990's OD circuit, the OD OFF lamp lights when you no longer have strong 12v at the solenoid, as referenced through the wire back to the relay switching it. It lights when the wire finds ground for the lamp through the solenoid.

Usual cause is shorted line because of the missing silicone rubber insulation, brushing against the transmission housing. If you blow fuse 11 and stick a bigger one in, the OD relay will burn a trace instead. And if fuse 11 is crusty, you have the same symptoms you're having.
 
cleanflametrap said:
Could be that "strong 12v" appears when things are working. But in the 1990's OD circuit, the OD OFF lamp lights when you no longer have strong 12v at the solenoid, as referenced through the wire back to the relay switching it. It lights when the wire finds ground for the lamp through the solenoid.

Usual cause is shorted line because of the missing silicone rubber insulation, brushing against the transmission housing. If you blow fuse 11 and stick a bigger one in, the OD relay will burn a trace instead. And if fuse 11 is crusty, you have the same symptoms you're having.
Click to expand...

That explains the random on and off of the dash light in my car where the PO had replaced the solenoid with the block off plate.
 
cleanflametrap said:
AW71? I looked at "wife's car" in the sig, and see 1990 244. Assuming stock AW70?



Could be that "strong 12v" appears when things are working. But in the 1990's OD circuit, the OD OFF lamp lights when you no longer have strong 12v at the solenoid, as referenced through the wire back to the relay switching it. It lights when the wire finds ground for the lamp through the solenoid.

Usual cause is shorted line because of the missing silicone rubber insulation, brushing against the transmission housing. If you blow fuse 11 and stick a bigger one in, the OD relay will burn a trace instead. And if fuse 11 is crusty, you have the same symptoms you're having.
Click to expand...

Nope, it's an AW70. Double checked the model placard on the transmission housing. "03-70" Bone stock tranny, no accumulator mods. So, at this point I'm willing to say its a dying solenoid?
 
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KeizerBrickGuy said:
Nope, it's an AW71. Double checked the model placard on the transmission housing. "03-71" Bone stock tranny, no accumulator mods. So, at this point I'm willing to say its a dying solenoid?
Click to expand...

Only reason I flagged the mismatched tranny is it indicates someone has changed it since birth, and at that time, the crappy solenoid wire may have been replaced. Tell me if I'm wrong about the AW71 belonging only on 240T cars and 7/9 cars?

It could be a solenoid with shorted turns, but of course you wouldn't have a "strong 12v" on that one. Electrically you haven't proved it so being willing to say it is a "dying solenoid" is just another excuse to guess and order a $200 replacement or get the Dremel out and go without it.

That would sadden me much as not checking brushes before ordering up an alternator does. With all this knowledgeable diagnostic help available here on TB.
 
When I was a noob and had OD circuit issues, I rigged a jumper lead directly to the OD solenoid and applied 12v direct to it when I wanted OD. It worked fine until I would exit the freeway and forget to take off OD; the car would stumble in first gear until I unclipped the jumper. Maybe try that!
 
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cleanflametrap said:
Only reason I flagged the mismatched tranny is it indicates someone has changed it since birth, and at that time, the crappy solenoid wire may have been replaced. Tell me if I'm wrong about the AW71 belonging only on 240T cars and 7/9 cars?

It could be a solenoid with shorted turns, but of course you wouldn't have a "strong 12v" on that one. Electrically you haven't proved it so being willing to say it is a "dying solenoid" is just another excuse to guess and order a $200 replacement or get the Dremel out and go without it.

That would sadden me much as not checking brushes before ordering up an alternator does. With all this knowledgeable diagnostic help available here on TB.
Click to expand...

AFAIK its turbo 2/7/9 with the 71 and 7/9 turbo cars with the 71L? Oh, I am definitely going to exhaust all options and troubleshooting before I do that. I have a jy solenoid that I checked and replaced the white wire; cut the rubber cap away, removed the old wire from its connection on top of the solenoid and resoldered the new wire in, resealed it with high temp RTV after applying some zinc paste.. It functions very well, based off of bench testing. Might give it a try when we get back from our trip to the cabin this weekend(in my car).

ZVOLV said:
When I was a noob and had OD circuit issues, I rigged a jumper lead directly to the OD solenoid and applied 12v direct to it when I wanted OD. It worked fine until I would exit the freeway and forget to take off OD; the car would stumble in first gear until I unclipped the jumper. Maybe try that!
Click to expand...

I considered trying that...I have a switch in the cabin (for fog lamps I still have yet to wire) already installed. I can just wire that in. Worth a try. Because if it kicks out of OD with direct 12v, it would have to be a solenoid, assuming there's very little loss across the circuit.

Edit: I hate the "Parts Cannon" method. That's what I pride myself on as a mechanic.
 
KeizerBrickGuy said:
Edit: I hate the "Parts Cannon" method. That's what I pride myself on as a mechanic.
Click to expand...

As a professional full time tech, I am expected to diagnose it quickly and correctly the first time.

Solenoid failure is actually very common on the automatic. That fattie on the m46, not so much! Internal OD failure on the auto OD is also rare.

I still like my idea of measuring current! If the 12v is staying there, as your tests show, that means current supply could be weak, or the solenoid is failing and it's opening the circuit. You could rig the current to go through your multimeter and into the solenoid. Or you could use an amp clamp. Standalone or attached to a graph such as a scope.
 
Crusty fuse could definitely do it then, that's another common 240 problem. Ground wire to the relay? The OD solenoid itself is about the last thing I'd suspect, if it fails (electrically) open I don't think the light will come on, will it? I don't have a schematic handy.
 
ZVOLV said:
As a professional full time tech, I am expected to diagnose it quickly and correctly the first time.

Solenoid failure is actually very common on the automatic. That fattie on the m46, not so much! Internal OD failure on the auto OD is also rare.

I still like my idea of measuring current! If the 12v is staying there, as your tests show, that means current supply could be weak, or the solenoid is failing and it's opening the circuit. You could rig the current to go through your multimeter and into the solenoid. Or you could use an amp clamp. Standalone or attached to a graph such as a scope.
Click to expand...

Yes. I agree. I will get my multimeter out and test at the spade connectors at the shifter and then down at the bullet connector(somehow) and test drive each and maybe see a spike or drop in voltage. To my knowledge, that is the original solenoid, which has almost 200k on the car at this point.
 
Nah man, I mean set that mofo to amps and see if the amperage cuts to zero when the solenoid does it's cutout thang.

This is what I would be using, but very few people here have em or have any interest in learning how to use one. How naive...!?

picture.php
 
DC clamp probes are still quite expensive, I'm pretty serious in the electronics hobby and have a lot of test equipment but I still don't have one of those. It's easy enough to insert a meter into the circuit with something like this.
 
ZVOLV said:
Nah man, I mean set that mofo to amps and see if the amperage cuts to zero when the solenoid does it's cutout thang.

This is what I would be using, but very few people here have em or have any interest in learning how to use one. How naive...!?

picture.php
Click to expand...

Those are pretty badass, but I do not yet have one. Come July when I get my tool allowance, I will probably spend for one. Until then I will probe/backprobe connections. :oogle:
 
Your tests with a dvom will always show battery voltage. Even if the solenoid has failed!

Think of this, let's say I were testing an intank fuel pump: my multimeter is gonna show battery voltage probed at the fuel pump whether that tank pump is dead or alive. If I measured current I would know that the pump has voltage AND IS alive!!!
 
James10952001 said:
Crusty fuse could definitely do it then, that's another common 240 problem. Ground wire to the relay? The OD solenoid itself is about the last thing I'd suspect, if it fails (electrically) open I don't think the light will come on, will it? I don't have a schematic handy.
Click to expand...

The OD OFF lamp is actually a pretty good clue. The lamp is wired, in effect, between switched battery and the hot lead of the solenoid. If the solenoid is NOT powered, the overdrive is locked out, and the solenoid itself provides the ground path to light the lamp, even if the relay's form B contact to ground the lamp is not working.

So, anything that interrupts or limits the current to the OD solenoid will get the lamp to turn on, because the relay is normally energized and its contacts closed.
 
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