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Old 12-05-2017, 12:45 AM   #1
Hotdoggin
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Default K-jet warm-up issue

1983 244T - Non-IC - fresh stage 0

Car has been sitting since 2007 - started monthly. Runs and drives right now, boosts and moves, the problem is... it won't do any of that until it's almost-full warm. On first startup it revs and runs fine for about 20 seconds. Idles perfect the whole time, but for about two minutes it won't take any throttle. It'll bog off idle and frontfire until it gets above 1500 or so, and miss a little until 3k, then rev out. Runs pretty well after that, though. Drivable and really gets moving once out of first. Never acts like it wants to die. My assumption is WUR based on how it acts before the car is fully warm. However, pouring over the K-jet green book, and over on the Merc/VW/Porsche forums... this isn't really a WUR-type symptom. I have two spares I can rebuild but would like to pin down the issue before throwing parts at it. Thanks!

Recent out-of-hibernation maintenance:

Bosch plugs, cap, rotor, Kingsbourne wires
New fuel filter and pumps, replaced fuel accumulator
All new vacuum lines
New fuel pump relay
Fresh fluids in all holes
Harness was replaced before it was parked

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Old 12-05-2017, 02:19 AM   #2
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Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? If so, what's the pump dead head pressure and return pressure cold and warm?
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:27 AM   #3
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I'll have to check and see if the shop has all the proper fittings. So you want pressure right after the filter, and at the return junction right near the filter?
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:09 PM   #4
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The fuel pressure gauge is connected to the line that goes from the center of the fuel distributor to the WUR. The gauge has a valve to direct the fuel either to the gauge only to read system pressure or to the WUR to read return pressure.



Don't bother checking pump dead head pressure unless you have a gauge that can handle the pressure. System pressure is what's important.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:06 PM   #5
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Alright, just poking around and we do not have that setup. Everything I've been able to find regarding kjet fuel pressure kits has led to the tbricks gauge, and a dead JCWHITNEY part number. Has there been an updated kit? Or am i going to be cobbling one together?
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:07 PM   #6
dl242gt
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Make sure the plug gap is proper at .028".

For a fuel pressure tester. Pelican parts used to sell one for quite a bit of money. I don't know who sells them anymore besides them but there may be another place. These folks do kjet service and repair.
https://www.deloreanautoparts.com/de...injection.html

I have not used them but they seem to be making Delorean owners pretty happy. Scroll down the left side for kjet aka CIS information.
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Last edited by dl242gt; 12-05-2017 at 04:12 PM.. Reason: add comment
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:23 PM   #7
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There is always the $20 TurboBricks brand fuel pressure test kit:

http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=289775
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:28 PM   #8
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It's been a few years...actually longer...since I drove/worked on a K-Jet car.

That being said, any information is from a long and getting weak memory.

I remember using a separate gage on both components...one on the center connection on the fuel distributor and another on the Warm Up Regulator (WUR) to compare pressure differential.

I made each connection/hose barb to the two components and from there standard WOG gages with a piece of fuel hose.

Does that not give the same result as the tester shown in the post by you hiperfauto?
Or is there any added benefit to having a 3 way valve between each gage?

Just curious.
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Old 12-05-2017, 04:55 PM   #9
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The three way valve allows measurements of both distributor regulator pressure and WRU regulator on one gauge.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestPoint View Post
There is always the $20 TurboBricks brand fuel pressure test kit:

http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=289775
That type of gauge setup works great for Kjet diag, but costs more than $20 to assemble yourself nowadays.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:11 PM   #11
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It's taken me quite a bit longer than anticipated, but I now have OE Volvo fuel pressure gauges and adapters available for rent. I have kits for K-Jet, LH-Jet without a schrader and LH-Jet with a schrader.

This is the turbo K-Jet set up. I even have the OE Volvo fuel pump bypass relay.



The gauges have recently been calibrated and all the rubber hoses are new.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:44 PM   #12
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Well, I suspect it'd make more sense to rent it from you. While it's here, I can source out the proper parts to make my own. What's the rental fee?
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:30 PM   #13
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The rental fee is only $20, but I want a $200 deposit.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:25 PM   #14
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Yikes! While I value this as an option, and understand the sizable deposit... taking into consideration that I own a damn CIS car, I think it'd behoove me to spend the money on purchasing one. Looking on that Delorean page... they have a permanent control pressure gauge they install. I may go that route, alternatively, they too have the full CIS kit. dl242gt, THANK YOU for that resource.

Last edited by Hotdoggin; 12-05-2017 at 11:36 PM..
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:38 PM   #15
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I need to be sure the gauge comes back, hence the large deposit. I couldn't replace it for $200. The real expense is shipping. The padded container I got from Harbor Freight doesn't fit in a large flat rate box, so USPS wants $30 the ship to the east coast.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:48 PM   #16
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I 100% understand! That is a very rare, and specific piece of kit. I think it'd be pretty wise of me to have one on hand, surely I'm going to have more issues as this is going to be in my stable for a long time. I just hope it doesn't keep separating me from all my money.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:10 AM   #17
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Pelican parts used to sell one and they wanted $225 if I recall correctly.
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Old 12-06-2017, 12:21 AM   #18
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For the DIY tester, you can get poor quality, but usable, M8 and M10 banjo to hose fittings either here:
https://www.belmetric.com/eye-fittin...j73hutid9cjm32

or ebay from the UK here
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...tting&_sacat=0

I originally tried to get better quality fittings from the Texas place, but they got confused when I told them I wanted the same hose barb size for both fittings and then shipped the wrong parts. (Their web pictures/descriptions were also not accurate at the time.)

To use the DIY tester, you need to plumb in a standard fuel pressure gauge, with shutoff, and then replace the whole line from the CPR (awkwardly placed under the manifold) to the cobra/fuel distributor. The nicer Volvo tester lets you tap into just the fuel disti connection without the hassles of accessing the CPR connection, and without the problems of getting it to reseal once done.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:29 AM   #19
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Max cost below $54.93. Surly, anyone with the need for and interest in assembling such a tool will have the at least some of the items in their junk box or available at their local JY or Lowes. The gauge and valve are all you have to order on line.

Gauge - $8.82

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-1-2-Utili....c100011.m1850

Valve - $9.44

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-4-mini-br....c100005.m1851

8mm x 1/4" banjo fitting - $6.90

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Banjo...JVafaB&vxp=mtr

10mm x 1/4" banjo fitting - $7.48

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6mm-or-1-4-...xZ5KcJ&vxp=mtr

Post on the WANTED Thread for a hose from the distributor to the WUR.

4 - 1/4" fuel injector hose clamps $6.29 Check HF

https://www.ebay.com/itm/FUEL-INJECT...tT3Nzv&vxp=mtr

4 ft 1/4" high pressure fuel injector hose - Local auto parts store $12

Brass 1/4" barb x 1/8" female x 1/4" barb fitting $4.00 (Lowes)

Duct tape
Zip tie
Coat hanger
JB Weld

Total $54.93



You sorta have to buy the valve and gauge.

Last edited by TestPoint; 12-06-2017 at 07:00 PM..
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:44 PM   #20
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That is basically what IPD sold me many years ago for about $75 or so. Thanks for posting up the picture.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:15 PM   #21
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Gentleman, Just for future reference and whatnot - That Delorean place is WONDERFUL. Quick email responses, and a wealth of knowledge.
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Old 12-06-2017, 09:48 PM   #22
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I was thinking about your issue and it will be good to check control pressure. It may be that it is stuck at one pressure so it kind of runs ok warmed up. But it is at too lean of a mixture for cold running because the control pressure is high.

When I bought my turbo in 1995 it had a cold starting issue where it would start and them immediately stall. It would do about six or seven of these in the morning winter startup and then run ok after that. Hot starting was ok. After about six months I had bought my IPD gauge. The control pressure regulator was clogged and control pressure equaled system pressure. So even the warmed up mixture was too lean.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:01 PM   #23
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That seems consistent with what I'm experiencing. It starts up in one revolution, will rev like there's no problem for about 15 seconds and then it's acting like there's no fuel. It pops a bit. I wish I had a wideband to see it in real time, I can see the intake cobra pop up as if it's frontfiring which would also indicate that it's lean. After it's initially warmed up, in runs decent. I notice some weird jumps in power in first - It's not smooth at all, it's like there's nothing then EVERYTHING and its at 5k, and I have to shift. Other gears it's perfectly fine.

I'm about to completely part out an 84 242T, so I'll have spare bits and parts to swap about. Ordered the pressure test kit, and talking to the guy about getting the right length lines made to permanently install a gauge for future troubleshooting.
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotdoggin View Post
That seems consistent with what I'm experiencing. It starts up in one revolution, will rev like there's no problem for about 15 seconds and then it's acting like there's no fuel. It pops a bit. I wish I had a wideband to see it in real time, I can see the intake cobra pop up as if it's frontfiring which would also indicate that it's lean. After it's initially warmed up, in runs decent. I notice some weird jumps in power in first - It's not smooth at all, it's like there's nothing then EVERYTHING and its at 5k, and I have to shift. Other gears it's perfectly fine.

I'm about to completely part out an 84 242T, so I'll have spare bits and parts to swap about. Ordered the pressure test kit, and talking to the guy about getting the right length lines made to permanently install a gauge for future troubleshooting.
I've seen a VDO electric oil pressure gauge and sending unit listed for use as a fuel pressure gauge.
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