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Dana 30 ratio change

fast242

fast242

I had a Jewish wedding
Joined
Feb 10, 2003
Location
Cerritos CA
I have been contemplating on changing my rear axle ratio on my 1983 245Ti from 3.91 to 3.73 and I want to use new ring and pinion and new carrier bearings. I have seen the parts online, but they are always for jeeps and some ford stuff. What should I be looking for if I decide to order, since the options seem to be fairly varied. I obviously want to avoid getting parts that look correct but don't fit. AND, I don't want to just swap in another used rear axle with the different ratio, since the likelihood of it being as loud or noisy as my current 3.91 is much greater. I want to learn how to set the ring and pinion, and have a nice rebuilt rear end that I can later add either a G80 or other form of locker/LSD. Just being picky I guess.

Thoughts and ideas welcome.

PJ
 
not really enough of a change for you to 'notice'

(imho)

my 3.91 that I sloppily installed and has since been welded together hasn't made any awful sounds of any kind, ever.
 
Raz said:
not really enough of a change for you to 'notice'

(imho)

my 3.91 that I sloppily installed and has since been welded together hasn't made any awful sounds of any kind, ever.
Click to expand...

Mine whistles and makes grinding gear noise when in light deceleration. And yes, you can tell the difference between the two, this would be the second 240 I have changed ratios from 3.91 to 3.73. I Thought about a 2.54, and may still go that low, but I am also strongly considering putting in a W58 in the car. If not the W58, then a Getrag. The 3.54 matches the getrag a little better, the 3.73 the W58 a little more.

CHeers

PJ
 
So, your 245ti is a automatic? Those are the ones with a 3.91. If it's a manual it's already got a 3.73 in it. Summit racing was selling a video that shows you how to setup the ring and pinion. Randys Ring and Pinion may also have some instructional video for this. You will probably need to get some special tools. You'll also need to replace the rear wheel bearings and will need a press to remove and install the bearings. The rear axle in my turbo was making some whining noise and the Lucas gear oil made it quiet.
 
If they have oil the gears do not wear!

Bearings will fail as they age.

Perhaps a used diff with the ratio you wish for and a set of new bearings?
 
fast242 said:
Mine whistles and makes grinding gear noise when in light deceleration. And yes, you can tell the difference between the two, this would be the second 240 I have changed ratios from 3.91 to 3.73. I Thought about a 2.54, and may still go that low, but I am also strongly considering putting in a W58 in the car. If not the W58, then a Getrag. The 3.54 matches the getrag a little better, the 3.73 the W58 a little more.

CHeers

PJ
Click to expand...


The Getrag with a pick up truck like 3.97 first would be happy with a 3.0 ratio
3.97 x 3.54= 14:1 overall in first gear.

That's GRANNY LOW
 
dl242gt said:
So, your 245ti is a automatic? Those are the ones with a 3.91. If it's a manual it's already got a 3.73 in it. Summit racing was selling a video that shows you how to setup the ring and pinion. Randys Ring and Pinion may also have some instructional video for this. You will probably need to get some special tools. You'll also need to replace the rear wheel bearings and will need a press to remove and install the bearings. The rear axle in my turbo was making some whining noise and the Lucas gear oil made it quiet.
Click to expand...

Converted to M46, was an auto before, This is the second car I converted to stick, my 242Ti, I converted back in 1996. So, yes, the 245Ti has a 3.91, confirmed, like my 242 by that wonderful sticker that actually states the axle ratio.

I do have a 12 ton press, and I like special tools, unless they are silly expensive.

Lucas gear oil, maybe. I kinda like the stuff from NEO.

JohnLane said:
If they have oil the gears do not wear!

Bearings will fail as they age.

Perhaps a used diff with the ratio you wish for and a set of new bearings?
Click to expand...

Something to consider if the gears never wear, my axle has synthetic 90 weight in it, and if bearings being replaced quiet down the axle, that might help. It is also possible that my driveshaft universal joints are causing the noise. I was in the process of changing my driveshaft u joints, but a problem has come up and I need to change tactics, at least for now, and order some more parts. I had an idea to try and find a pick a part with a 3.54 rear and a G80 from another car, put the G80 into the 3.54 axle and buy the axle. But 3.54 in the yards are VERY rare. I might try a Volvo only yard, which has decent prices in San Diego for a 3.54. And that method allows me to change all the bearings and seals with the axle on the ground, without putting my car down till the axle is ready.


John V said:
The Getrag with a pick up truck like 3.97 first would be happy with a 3.0 ratio
3.97 x 3.54= 14:1 overall in first gear.

That's GRANNY LOW
Click to expand...

I am well aware of the granny gear first of the Getrag and M46. Which is why a 3.54 or 3.33 would be better. Some compromises need to be made, and with the Dellows kit for the W58 costing about $500 or a little more, the Getrag looks better to me cost wise. Thus why we don't have a clear winner tranny wise, unless you have decent funding.



Thanks to all of you so far for your ideas, keep them coming
 
I had a true track installed in my 82 turbo axle with 248k miles on the original 3.73 axle. All new wheel bearings, pinion and carrier bearings along with the true track. After about 50k miles the axle was making a whining noise. I also put in Redline gear oil when the true track was installed. When the whining started I went back to the shop that installed the true track. They told me they aren't very happy with synthetic gear oil and recommended the Lucas to me. I put the Lucas in there and it's become more quiet as time goes on.

If you are going to all that trouble to put in a lsd and change axle ratios. I'd suggest the latest version of the true track. The older version has performed well for me. The newest with its improvements will only be better.
 
Coffee said:
anybody know if this would be worthwhile in a n/a 2.3?
Click to expand...

what part?

changing gears ratios? yes, no and maybe, depends on current setup and goals,,,

adding an limited slip? I'd say yes if you drive your car a little more "spirited" that most...my 242 is an n/a and a limited slip diff is in the plans for sure.
 
fast242 said:
I am well aware of the granny gear first of the Getrag and M46. Which is why a 3.54 or 3.33 would be better. Some compromises need to be made, and with the Dellows kit for the W58 costing about $500 or a little more, the Getrag looks better to me cost wise. Thus why we don't have a clear winner tranny wise, unless you have decent funding.



Thanks to all of you so far for your ideas, keep them coming
Click to expand...

Getrag? Dellows? Toiletta W58?

Why when there are simpler boxes to do and available with excellent ratios for axles from , depending on if your motor makes any ft/lbs, 3.6 to 4.3.

Look, this is easy:
VolvotoGMT5adaptor10.jpg


You going to have some rip snortin 400 ft/lbs monster?
 
It seems a bit silly to buy a new ring and pinion and then set it up yourself and risk destroying parts. But if you do, you'll need a Volvo specific R&P if you're using a 1031 housing.

The ring and pinion rarely seems to be a problem in these axles, and my assumption has been that the R&P rarely causes the noise. The axle we just replaced in my car definitely had a worn pinion bearing at the very least. It had some play in the pinion and the noise changed as I changed throttle from on/off when in gear. It also made some vibration/noise at certain RPM on decel in gear. It hasn't been pulled apart yet, so I have not inspected the carrier bearings or the pinion bearings.

The 'new' axle we dropped in was a 1030 from a '79. Reused all the bearings with the LSD because they looked fine, and now I've got a quiet rear end again.

The rear end from any late model 240 non-turbo will probably be in good shape.
 
dl242gt said:
I had a true track installed in my 82 turbo axle with 248k miles on the original 3.73 axle. All new wheel bearings, pinion and carrier bearings along with the true track. After about 50k miles the axle was making a whining noise. I also put in Redline gear oil when the true track was installed. When the whining started I went back to the shop that installed the true track. They told me they aren't very happy with synthetic gear oil and recommended the Lucas to me. I put the Lucas in there and it's become more quiet as time goes on.

If you are going to all that trouble to put in a lsd and change axle ratios. I'd suggest the latest version of the true track. The older version has performed well for me. The newest with its improvements will only be better.
Click to expand...

Hey M?ller, you know I paid the rent for 16 years building Saab boxes with spiral bevel gears fro final drive (since all the stuff I did was N/S motor.)
I've seen a LOT of failures from various things and all sorts of different oils and had to keep watch on some boxes where the customer had zero dough to buy new stuff which I would be forced to do best we could and be nice.
Oils became an important part of that keeping those boxes going.

I have ALWAYS been highly suspicious of and WILL NOT HAVE Redline gear oil in anything I own or am responsible for.

I drained the oil only about a few days old, out of a box once that had redline and shifting problems---a separate thing--too slick for the synchros--- and the car had been run on streets and then sat while we yakked and to cool down.

20-25 minutes after it arrived I pull the plug and out comes McDonalds Strawberry Milkshake.

Highly aerated foamy emulsion qand emulsions being full of air doesn't lubricate like oil does, and doesn't have the shock load or surface load abilities either.

Seen that same foamy crap numerous times since.

You dodged a bullet in my view.

Oh and there is some info around about Redline failing the standard tests for gear oils which failed on quelle suprise! foaming or aeration:oops:
 
The T5 is a good tranny, and has options for rebuilding and other fun stuff. The difference I see and this is on even a rebuilt T5 is that they shift poorly, are noisy, and have been very hard for me to find in the junk yards, at least here. I have experience with getrags and I like the shift feel and quiet operation, but those are hard to find as well for less than $500, expensive to fix or replace parts on, and the ratios are not that great. The W58, I can find pretty easily, they are a strong tranny, and they can be rebuilt cheaply, and they have decent ratio's plus they are quiet. I want to try the W58 not because it is the only choice, or the easiest to adapt, but to possibly achieve a quiet tranny. I have NOT made the final decision, I may in the end go T5, but I am kinda weird in my desires for my daily driven car. Amazing how many people wonder why I keep the clutched fan and AC and power steering in my 245TI, and my answer is simple, it helps with the comfort of the drive. It is NOT, a track car. It is built to be a reliable, comfortable, transportation with more than normal HP levels.

A 3.73 rear that is not noisy, is the goal. And I am glad that it may be easier to just change the bearings, and not the gears to achieve this.

Cheers

PJ
 
Mueller said:
what part?

changing gears ratios? yes, no and maybe, depends on current setup and goals,,,

adding an limited slip? I'd say yes if you drive your car a little more "spirited" that most...my 242 is an n/a and a limited slip diff is in the plans for sure.
Click to expand...

Ratios. limited slip is a must.
 
Coffee said:
Ratios. limited slip is a must.
Click to expand...

only "you" can answer whether or not you need or want new ratios.....

what do you currently have?

do you want car to accelerate quicker at the expense of top end?

or do you want to drop the rpm's during highway operation?

do you have the option of changing the ratios in your gearbox?
 
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