• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

Advance/retard timing on EZ116K

my thought on the problems with advanced timing when starting the car:
get relay that grounds the pins 18+19 when it isnt activated (normally closed). Connect the coil of the relay to the signal wire to the starter motor. That way the pins wont be grounded when you crank the engine.
 
JW240 said:
my thought on the problems with advanced timing when starting the car:
get relay that grounds the pins 18+19 when it isnt activated (normally closed). Connect the coil of the relay to the signal wire to the starter motor. That way the pins wont be grounded when you crank the engine.
Click to expand...

telepathy, that's exact my thoughts about the problem. But therefor it must be possible to 'hot-switch' the EZK. Maybe someone who has a switchable EZK, like Fred, and a flash light can confirm if it works this way?!
 
stoni said:
telepathy, that's exact my thoughts about the problem. But therefor it must be possible to 'hot-switch' the EZK. Maybe someone who has a switchable EZK, like Fred, and a flash light can confirm if it works this way?!
Click to expand...

haha great minds think alike (dont say you were thinking of that saying as well :-P )

I changed the timing whith a running engine but i dont know if i noticed anything... (has been a long time ago)

EDIT: removed ish about more fuel, not applicable to all ecu's
 
Last edited:
JW240 said:
haha great minds think alike (dont say you were thinking of that saying as well :-P )

I changed the timing whith a running engine but i dont know if i noticed anything... (has been a long time ago)

It is possible to let the injection give more fuel (~50%) during cranking and idle via pin 15 (+12v) on the LH box... I got the tip from Fred. maybe it helps
Click to expand...

:lol:

I'm not sure if more fuel will start the engine better or if it floods the engine. Simple 12Volt on pin 15, or must i use a resistor to limit the power? It will be a try worth ....
 
stoni said:
:lol:

I'm not sure if more fuel will start the engine better or if it floods the engine. Simple 12Volt on pin 15, or must i use a resistor to limit the power? It will be a try worth ....
Click to expand...

fred said just +12 volt. Maybe measure the current that flows with a multimeter just to be sure you aren't pumping a lot of current in the ecu if the pin turns out to be something different..
 
JW240 said:
fred said just +12 volt. Maybe measure the current that flows with a multimeter just to be sure you aren't pumping a lot of current in the ecu if the pin turns out to be something different..
Click to expand...

Just catch the ECU from my car, soldering in a switch to test the result tommorow morning, will report then ....
 
JW240 said:
my thought on the problems with advanced timing when starting the car:
get relay that grounds the pins 18+19 when it isnt activated (normally closed). Connect the coil of the relay to the signal wire to the starter motor. That way the pins wont be grounded when you crank the engine.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a very good idea.

stoni said:
telepathy, that's exact my thoughts about the problem. But therefor it must be possible to 'hot-switch' the EZK. Maybe someone who has a switchable EZK, like Fred, and a flash light can confirm if it works this way?!
Click to expand...
I have a switchable EZK. I use a switch with three positions (-3, 0, +3). It is built into the top of the EZK and can be switched by reaching under the dash (you need to remove the panel first though...).

I have never tried if it actually switches settings instantly when using the switch.

JW240 said:
haha great minds think alike (dont say you were thinking of that saying as well :-P )

I changed the timing whith a running engine but i dont know if i noticed anything... (has been a long time ago)

It is possible to let the injection give more fuel (~50%) during cranking and idle via pin 15 (+12v) on the LH box... I got the tip from Fred. maybe it helps
Click to expand...
Did I really say pin 15??? That is only applicable on some ECU?s (not Stoni?s...). All others use pin 15 connected to the A/C-system to know when it is turned on (to prepare the idle stabilising).

stoni said:
:lol:

I'm not sure if more fuel will start the engine better or if it floods the engine. Simple 12Volt on pin 15, or must i use a resistor to limit the power? It will be a try worth ....
Click to expand...
Do not connect 12v to pin 15 please.

And you are running E85, right? With E85, up to 300% extra cranking enrichment may be needed for some engines depending on the temperature. 50-100% extra is pretty normal for a redblock though.
 
frpe82 said:
I have never tried if it actually switches settings instantly when using the switch.
Click to expand...

Maybe you can do some tests for us ..:)

frpe82 said:
Do not connect 12v to pin 15 please.
Click to expand...

Just seen it in the wiring diagram, that pin 15 is something other (climate unit) ... :-(

frpe82 said:
And you are running E85, right? With E85, up to 300% extra cranking enrichment may be needed for some engines depending on the temperature. 50-100% extra is pretty normal for a redblock though.
Click to expand...

You want to tell me that 50-100% more at stock is enough ;-)
 
frpe82 said:
I don?t understand the question... could you elaborate please?
Click to expand...

Fred, you wrote:
And you are running E85, right? With E85, up to 300% extra cranking enrichment may be needed for some engines depending on the temperature. 50-100% extra is pretty normal for a redblock though.


Was half a joke, joking in english is not so easy though (learning: do not translate german phrases 1:1 in english). I meant that you want to tell me, that 50-100% which is normal for a redblock is enough to start with E85 even when it is cold. There is no chance to get 300% more from the ECU, which is needed with E85 to get a noticable better result, right?

Back to the theme: I have 'improved' my fuel yesterday evening with a extra portion of 5 liter gas to see this morning what happens. The EZK is still 3 degrees advanced, this morning we had here in Bremen -3 degrees cel. - guess....... starts up like a young Lady :)

3 degrees EZK advance are possible by increasing the gas part. The mixture before was 90% E85 and 10% gas. At the time when i filled in the extra 5 liter gas, there was a rest of 50 Liter 90%/10% mixture in the tank. As result it should be now a ~80%/20% mixture.

Now i must find out, how much the gas part can be reduced without loosing the good new starting abilities :cool:
 
stoni said:
Fred, you wrote:
And you are running E85, right? With E85, up to 300% extra cranking enrichment may be needed for some engines depending on the temperature. 50-100% extra is pretty normal for a redblock though.


Was half a joke, joking in english is not so easy though (learning: do not translate german phrases 1:1 in english). I meant that you want to tell me, that 50-100% which is normal for a redblock is enough to start with E85 even when it is cold. There is no chance to get 300% more from the ECU, which is needed with E85 to get a noticable better result, right?

Back to the theme: I have 'improved' my fuel yesterday evening with a extra portion of 5 liter gas to see this morning what happens. The EZK is still 3 degrees advanced, this morning we had here in Bremen -3 degrees cel. - guess....... starts up like a young Lady :)

3 degrees EZK advance are possible by increasing the gas part. The mixture before was 90% E85 and 10% gas. At the time when i filled in the extra 5 liter gas, there was a rest of 50 Liter 90%/10% mixture in the tank. As result it should be now a ~80%/20% mixture.

Now i must find out, how much the gas part can be reduced without loosing the good new starting abilities :cool:
Click to expand...
Yeah, I got that it was kinda' a half-joke. But what I was trying to say about cranking is this:

Normally the pulsewidth to the injectors at cranking is about the same as:

the required pulsewidth at idle + a few ten percent addition

(this addition is the cranking enrichment, and I can?t remeber exactly how much since it differs between different applications and cars).

By adding 50-100% on top of that you will get a better start (it will become possible to start it at all...).

That means that if you have:

idle pulsewidth + 25% extra pulsewidth for cranking programmed into the chip as stock

the added 100% extra pulsewidth I was talking about would result in:

idle pulsewidth + 25% + 100% extra enrichment = idle pulsewidth + 50% cranking enrichment.


And regarding the E85 and gasoline mixture:
Did you really have trouble getting it to start with 90% E85 and 10% gas?
 
frpe82 said:
the added 100% extra pulsewidth I was talking about would result in:

idle pulsewidth + 25% + 100% extra enrichment = idle pulsewidth + 50% cranking enrichment.

And regarding the E85 and gasoline mixture:
Did you really have trouble getting it to start with 90% E85 and 10% gas?
Click to expand...

OK, got it. Can you program a few more e.g 50% cranking enrichment in your chips? I have a few more questions regarding your ECU and EZK chips regarding the stock parameter, full cut, fuel enrichment under boost and timing retarding but that are questions for a new thread or maybe private mail...

To E85: Yes, with my stock EZK/ECU i have trouble starting the engine in the same way as you descriped in your thread:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=1055105&postcount=82

with the differnet that my car start's with 90%/10% @ < 5*C after 4-8 seconds cranking, most time after > 6 sec. You wrote, that your car starts nearly instant with this mixture.
 
and by the way, i have figured out earlier, that my turbo ECU 937 starts after two revs. and my N/A Ecu 571 needs 4 revs (all with gas). This can be the reason for our different statements.
 
stoni said:
OK, got it. Can you program a few more e.g 50% cranking enrichment in your chips? I have a few more questions regarding your ECU and EZK chips regarding the stock parameter, full cut, fuel enrichment under boost and timing retarding but that are questions for a new thread or maybe private mail...
Click to expand...
Write down all your questions in a PM or mail to me, and I will answer them. Some of the questions will probably also be added to the "Chipping FAQ" thread if they are interesting to others.
 
This doesn't seem to apply to EZ-115K as fitted to the V6's. 18 and 19 are already connected. The only blank pins are 1, 5, 9, 14, 15 & 22.

Any idea as to which ones are the ones to ground to advance the timing?
 
Bump... :) I just re-read through the whole thread(well, except the E85 specific stuff above) because I want to finally do this before I get to the drags this coming friday...

So I have a stupid question. Where is the EZK unit in the 240? I may also want to swap in the turbo fuel computer I have lying around, if I can find it... Where's that? :)

And, to confirm, can I just connect the wires that I add to the 18 and 19 spots to the 20 wire? Splice the 18 and 19 into it and call it good?
 
klr142 said:
So I have a stupid question. Where is the EZK unit in the 240? I may also want to swap in the turbo fuel computer I have lying around, if I can find it... Where's that? :)
Click to expand...
EZK: on the firewall in front of the passengers' feet. remove the cardboard ('felt') stuff under tha dash and you'll see it.
LH: you'll see it when you are close to the EZK box, its on the right of it near the A-pillar, behind the 'bump' in the plastic covering the A-pillar.

klr142 said:
And, to confirm, can I just connect the wires that I add to the 18 and 19 spots to the 20 wire? Splice the 18 and 19 into it and call it good?
Click to expand...
20 wire? i just connected 18 and 19 to a ground connection... it should work if 20 is a ground connection.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top