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240 SRS light on , then car sputters and dies

E

eurotrash940

New member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Location
Dallas
I started the car up, and like normal the alternator did not self-excite, so I had to give it gas to 2500-3000 rpm to get it to charge (a known problem with my car).

Then, while driving out of my neighborhood the radio stops picking up a signal (but still on)...then the SRS light turns on. Normally this is because the key isn't exactly in key position II, so I bump it left and right a bit to see if that's the case.

At a stop sign, the car sputters and dies. When I tried to restart the car, there was no click, no noises, etc. It kinda felt like a dead battery, but my interior lights and dash lights were all on.

What gives?

And more importantly - what steps should I take to troubleshoot this to get the car back on the road ASAP?
 
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Dead battery probably. Either way, sounds like there is a charge problem. Could be a bad ground, or your alternator has given up. Test the battery voltage. The SRS light will come on when the system is discharging due to a dead alternator, or any other strange power system issues as it is extremely sensitive to voltage fluctuations. It throws the light and disables the system if it's not getting reliable data because of that.

I saw this exact symptom a few weeks ago when my GF's car's alternator tensioner broke and the system stopped charging, causing the battery to go flat.
 
I figured the SRS light was an indication that it was a power issue but wasn't sure - that and coupled with the random non-self exciting condition of the alternator already known.

That's actually good to know - didn't want a relay problem to have to chase down. I have a spare alternator in my garage and I was already suspect of the WallyWorld battery in the car.

I'll swap out the alternator this weekend - and then spec it out and post results.

One more question - How easy is it to rebuild an alternator? I don't want to pitch a Bosch alternator if I don't have to and certainly want to have a spare since I have two 240's. Hate to be in a pinch and have to put an Autozone/Vatozone POS in there.
 
bcumby said:
One more question - How easy is it to rebuild an alternator? I don't want to pitch a Bosch alternator if I don't have to and certainly want to have a spare since I have two 240's. Hate to be in a pinch and have to put an Autozone/Vatozone POS in there.
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not hard, if you have the right tools. Often, you can get away with just replacing the brushes, which is super easy. Do you have the older style large bosch? If so, it's just two screws and you can replace the brush+voltage regulator assembly with it in the car. Not sure on the newer style, i think you have to take the rear cover off.

You can go for a full rebuild, which is disassembling it. That really just gives you the ability to replace the bearings, as well as fix/re-solder any bad wiring on the coils.
 
The replacement alt I have in the garage looks like the older style, large Bosch. Will that work on my newer car w/o much modification?

I haven't looked at the alt in the car very much yet.

Where can I get the brushes for the alternator? I figured a retail auto parts store wouldn't have that type of thing.
 
bcumby said:
The replacement alt I have in the garage looks like the older style, large Bosch. Will that work on my newer car w/o much modification?

I haven't looked at the alt in the car very much yet.

Where can I get the brushes for the alternator? I figured a retail auto parts store wouldn't have that type of thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the larger style will bolt right in, easy. You might have to change the end on the ground wire or exciter wire, but that's about it.

Here's the Bosch one, at fcpgroton. But many auto stores SHOULD have them, they are fairly common alternators:
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-ex...Turbo_Bosch_Voltage_Regulator/category_id/112

I wouldn't buy the aftermarket ones, they suck at regulating the power well. In the past, i've just gone to junkyards and yanked out the brush assembly and looked for good ones. A lot cheaper. A "good" one is just one with lots of length left on the brushes, have a look at the pic to see what they look like new.
 
Also, since the OP mentions this:

bcumby said:
...then the SRS light turns on. Normally this is because the key isn't exactly in key position II, so I bump it left and right...
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It is entirely possible that the ignition switch is dead. This is known to cause the SRS problem and I believe that I have had at least one car where the charging system was acting up because the circuit was not being completed due to a failing switch.
 
How can I tell if it is my switch versus these other issues? $95 bucks for one is kind of an expensive troubleshooting step.
 
bcumby said:
How can I tell if it is my switch versus these other issues? $95 bucks for one is kind of an expensive troubleshooting step.
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It has been a while since I have taken one off of the column.

But, getting one from the junkyard is doable.

I would probably take the whole column out of one and pull it that way. But, there may be another way to get at it (honestly, I can't remember if it has standard bolts or torx or...).

Also, I would pull one from the newest model car you can find at the yard. I don't believe there is any difference in the switches (it's all in the loom where it plugs in).

Once you have it out, you can unhook the wire lug from the back of your switch and test the JY switch by using a screwdriver to start the car. You'll still need to unlock the wheel with the key ;-)

Other than that - You won't know until you try (One or the other. Whichever is more agreeable to your resources).
 
bcumby said:
How can I tell if it is my switch versus these other issues? $95 bucks for one is kind of an expensive troubleshooting step.
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Oh, and I included the link for reference.

I do buy from FCPGroton. But, you are right. Even if you were going to buy a new one, you would want to make sure that it was needed (although, I can say if you are bumping the switch - you are going to need a different one soon no matter where it comes from)

edit: Look on ebay. Some people buy them to use as a diagnostic tool if working on Volvos often.

(I have one :-P )
 
bcumby said:
Both of my cars need the key bump because of the weak return from start to key position II - this sucks.
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Is the lock is dragging?

If so, you might try some lock lubricant. Autozone sells it.

I thought that the switch was working normal, but sometimes you have to bump the dash / key to get the SRS Light to go out.

What normally happens is that a bunch of carbon builds up on the contacts (and they wear down) - so bumping them causes the contacts to land in a slightly different position which temporarily fixed the problem.

If it is hanging on the rebound from III to II, then it could be the electrical switch or the mechanical switch (needing lubrication - usually).
 
bcumby said:
Both of my cars need the key bump because of the weak return from start to key position II - this sucks.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my 90 745 has this issue, i don't even notice it anymore. In fact, i tip all the other volvos i drive back automatically, though it makes no difference. :lol:
 
Ok - so I finally got a new battery in the car, just as a temporary measure to get it home and diagnose it. Still not driving it because I have not really completely finished troubleshooting what caused this and now I have another symptom.

Look at the following dashlight configuration - immediately before this all went down, all of my dashlights turned on in key position I - now I have this:

3313ww2.jpg


Why would a failing alternator suddenly cause my bulb failure light to stop illuminating? I can't see a reason it would, so it leads me to this:

What else could have failed that caused this condition or do I have multiple problems to diagnose and they are just all presenting at the same time?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks
 
bcumby said:
Why would a failing alternator suddenly cause my bulb failure light to stop illuminating? I can't see a reason it would, so it leads me to this:

What else could have failed that caused this condition or do I have multiple problems to diagnose and they are just all presenting at the same time?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks
Click to expand...

It's the switch.
 
Do this:

Pull down the dash pad (at least enough to get your hand up near the switch.)

Look up into the dash area (lying on your back or using a mirror) to get a feel for where the switch for the wiring connects to the mechanical switch for the key.

Sometimes moving the switch connector (it won't really move - you will wiggle the wiring lug around on the portion of the switch that handles the wiring) will cause the problem to stop intermittently.

Honestly, at this point I hope you aren't driving the car. Because if I am right... The car may malfunction at its discretion which could leave you piloting a 3K lb vehicle with no power and no power brakes.
 
I am not driving it at this point - but I have to get this car fixed and back to DD shape tonight or I'm gonna torch both my Swedes and go buy a sh***y Honda - I'm about to go on vaca and when I get back i'll be slammed with work.

I thought these cars were supposed to be reliable.


swedefiend said:
Do this:

Pull down the dash pad (at least enough to get your hand up near the switch.)

Look up into the dash area (lying on your back or using a mirror) to get a feel for where the switch for the wiring connects to the mechanical switch for the key.

Sometimes moving the switch connector (it won't really move - you will wiggle the wiring lug around on the portion of the switch that handles the wiring) will cause the problem to stop intermittently.

Honestly, at this point I hope you aren't driving the car. Because if I am right... The car may malfunction at its discretion which could leave you piloting a 3K lb vehicle with no power and no power brakes.
Click to expand...
 
bcumby said:
I thought these cars were supposed to be reliable.
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Hey, the car is a 90' or '91?

That's nearly twenty years old. If it makes you feel any better, the Hondas need a similar switch every ten years or so and pretty much like clockwork (in my experience.)
 
I don't even think I can get a switch locally - i guess i'll have to order from FCP and wait. Fml and fmv.

And on the Honda thing - I drove one 7 yrs and 130k miles - the only money ever spent on repairs outside of normal wear and tear/maintenance items was $324.XX for a VTEC controller.

A good reliable car doesn't leave you stranded and doesn't take a forum and week to diagnose and fix - no other car besides this one except my old bug has ever left me stranded - and I got that thing running again on the side of the road, drunk in the middle of the night.
 
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So - finally got time where I could get dirty and look at the car...

Looked behind the alternator - the exciter wire was coming apart at the spade that connected it to the alt.

I trimmed it up, added a little pigtail, and attached it using a fresh spade that made a tight connection.

Problem fixed.

THEN - I tested the voltage while the car was running at the battery and at the alternator to make sure I did not have a significant voltage drop.

Battery 13.63
Alternator 13.83

I'm satisfied the system is working properly now - next up will be an adjustable regulator from davebarton so I can bump the alternator up to 14+ volts.

Swedefiend - I'm still going to order the switch and clean up the key return spring mechanism just to be safe - as I understand these failing can give you a light show on the dash as well.



bcumby said:
Ok - so I finally got a new battery in the car, just as a temporary measure to get it home and diagnose it. Still not driving it because I have not really completely finished troubleshooting what caused this and now I have another symptom.

Look at the following dashlight configuration - immediately before this all went down, all of my dashlights turned on in key position I - now I have this:

3313ww2.jpg


Why would a failing alternator suddenly cause my bulb failure light to stop illuminating? I can't see a reason it would, so it leads me to this:

What else could have failed that caused this condition or do I have multiple problems to diagnose and they are just all presenting at the same time?

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
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