• Hello Guest, welcome to the initial stages of our new platform!
    You can find some additional information about where we are in the process of migrating the board and setting up our new software here

    Thank you for being a part of our community!

Squirter Motor vs Non Squirter Motor???

M

MSGGrunt

New member
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Location
Western Massachusetts
I have been keeping an eye open for a good reasonably priced turbo donor car and have found several 700 and 900 series that are not the later models with the squirter block and my question is this, I know the later motors with the oil squirters are preferable, but is a pre squirter motor out of an earlier car a HUGE compromise? I am in no hurry and if the squirter motors are that much better I will just continue to look until I find a 1993 or later car.

My intentions for the car is a daily driver with the possibility of a future turbo upgrade for a bit more power.

I've got a line on a 1995 b230t out of a 940 with only 155,000 miles. The motor would be pulled out of the car after I hear it run, includes the transmission, computers, wiring harness, all the accessories and loaded into my vehicle for $1200.00.

I like the idea of having the entire car in case I need a small part that doesn't come with the motor, but having another car in my driveway with me having to pull the motor and transmission alone isn't too appealing.

I found another car that is an earlier 1991 940, so non squirter motor, for $550.00 or best offer. Same owner for the past 14 years. Half the price, but not the preferred motor. And I'd have to pull the motor/trans myself, which I have done before so not beyond my abilities.
 
Either one will be fine considering they were non squirters for what, like 18 years? Also if the engine is already out you can squirterize any of them.
 
I'm leaning towards ponying up the cash for the 95. I know it's more money, but I have learned in the past that you get over a purchase price a lot faster than you get over wishing you had gotten what you wanted in the first place.

1995 positives over the 1991

- 155,000 miles vs 233,000. I would still pulling it apart and refresh all the gaskets and seals while the motor is out of the car.
- Motor is the squirter block so less apt to have piston slap?
- Motor and tranny already pulled.
- The seller is willing to include all the AC stuff as well.
 
Oil squirty things are not that big of a deal, and are exceptionally easy to add to any block, for cheap. JohnV even has a jig floating around I believe.

It would not be a deciding factor for me in choosing an engine.

EDIT: <a href="http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=115422">Linky to thread on squirters.</a>
 
VB242 said:
I'm running 21psi of boost on a B21F+T with no squirters, no probIem after 3 years.
Click to expand...

Totally different design in almost every possible way. The B21s are known for running quietly with 300,000+ miles on them. A B230 isn't. That's the reason the squirters were added to them. Usually, by 150,000 miles a B230 has noticeable piston slap with the non-squirter design. My 1992 940T with 170K on it is getting noisy. My 1995 940T with 280,000 miles on the original engine is as quiet as it was new. They make a HUGE difference.

The decision is a no brainer. Go for the 1995. Even the transmission in a 1995 is a better design. You get the roller bearing output shaft AW-71 vs. the plain bearing output shaft. You also get the latest design ECU in the 1995. You are talking apples and oranges in the comparison above.
 
2manyturbos said:
Totally different design in almost every possible way. The B21s are known for running quietly with 300,000+ miles on them. A B230 isn't. That's the reason the squirters were added to them. Usually, by 150,000 miles a B230 has noticeable piston slap with the non-squirter design. My 1992 940T with 170K on it is getting noisy. My 1995 940T with 280,000 miles on the original engine is as quiet as it was new. They make a HUGE difference,
Click to expand...

Im curious what the main differences are between the b2x blocks and the b230 blocks that would necessitate oil squirters for longer life.
 
Piston material and nickel content in the blocks. The B21/23 engines run quiet almost forever until the bearings wear out and they start knocking. I've seen them with 450,000 miles on them running quietly. Quietly is a relative term. New, they were not a quiet engine. A 6 cylinder whiteblock is so smooth and quiet when in good shape I have accidentally tried to restart one while it was running. It was the first one I owned. A pristine 90K mile 960 sedan. I thought it has stalled after backing it up in my driveway. That was a horrible sound when the starter tried to engage the flywheel at 750 RPM. It's only happened once.
 
<< imagines what he could pull from the JY for 1200 bucks...

Others have answered... If you've got the coin for a possibly better motor, then go for it. However I don't know if there's a test for engine life/possible future problems based on the quietness of an engine. The first time I ever test drove a car I popped the hood and listened to what I thought was an engine on the way out and later learned it was just fuel injectors clicking.

All that aside, if it were me I would just +T the motor that's in the car right now and be done with it. Spend the money saved on something more worthy... like a better turbo or a megasquirt III.
 
By the time you source a good turbo, manifold, injectors, oil return system, ECUs, down pipe etc, you would have 5$00 into the parts to do the turbo conversion on a higher compression engine. The AW-70 transmission would have to be replaced soon afterward. Add it all up, it doesn't make sense, IMO.
 
2manyturbos said:
By the time you source a good turbo, manifold, injectors, oil return system, ECUs, down pipe etc, you would have 5$00 into the parts to do the turbo conversion on a higher compression engine. The AW-70 transmission would have to be replaced soon afterward. Add it all up, it doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

Sure. You're right. If you have the opportunity to spend the $550 on a turbo car in good shape then do it and get it done.

Round these parts $550 turbo cars are usually on their last legs...that's why I usually source parts from a JY.

I have no idea what platform this guy is starting with. Maybe he already has a turbo car with a dead engine and wants something new. Maybe not. I gave my recommendation and it was worth the price the OP paid for it.... or maybe not.

I know the +T concept pisses you off to no end ;-) but it's still a valid avenue for someone who knows what their doing and I will recommend it every chance I get.
 
740atl said:
Sure. You're right. If you have the opportunity to spend the $550 on a turbo car in good shape then do it and get it done.

Round these parts $550 turbo cars are usually on their last legs...that's why I usually source parts from a JY.

I have no idea what platform this guy is starting with. Maybe he already has a turbo car with a dead engine and wants something new. Maybe not. I gave my recommendation and it was worth the price the OP paid for it.... or maybe not.

I know the +T concept pisses you off to no end ;-) but it's still a valid avenue for someone who knows what their doing and I will recommend it every chance I get.
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't piss me off. I've seen plenty of them that work out fine, for those that know what they're doing. ;-)

I can hear it already, "My +T is pinging, what can I do to make it stop". For some reason, that seems familiar.
 
Was looking at squirter engines for my turbo swap almost 10 years ago..
Then I did the +t on the original b230f ('90 block without squirters). It had 250kkm then, now 330kkm. Not stellar mileage. But it's still quiet, compression like new (12 bar cold, 176 psi) and good crosshatch visible/no oil consumption. Not saying it's as durable as maybe a b21 or a later turbo block.
Long story short: I'd prefer good condition over squirters or not. Though it sounds like the better engine of the 2 is the squirter engine now.
 
I have had one B230FT non-squirter motor that was still very quiet with 240,000 miles on it. Generally, that doesn't happen. The noisy engines usually still have good compression and don't consume oil, they just drive me crazy rattling like that. It isn't a sound that inspires confidence.
 
My starting point is a 1991 240 with 257,000 miles and very well maintained. I'm looking for more horsepower as everyone does who turbos. I am leaning towards the 93 plus motors/cars for the squirter design that lowers piston temps and helps stop pre-detonation, the better transmission and a motor that was designed from the factory to be turbocharged. It will come with all the proper intake/intercooler plumbing etc. I want it to look factory. No open air filters, bright colored intercooler hoses, etc. I'm thinking $1000.00 for a motor, transmission, radiator/fan, intercooler, all accessories, both computers, AC drier, AC condenser and associate hoses isn't a bad price. I just found a complete 1993 940 today with 229,000 with new brakes (who cares) and a new radiator for $1000.00 OBO. Whole running and driving car that I could probably/hopefully get for a bit less.

Speaking of the longevity of these red block motors and still seeing crosshatching after many, many tens of thousands miles I have to ask, did Volvo use a high nickel content in their blocks? I know when I was into the older FJ40/60/62 Toyota Landcruisers these were known for extreme reliability even for a long stroke I6 and it was attributed to Toyota using high nickel in their blocks. An old machinist even told me that he could tell the difference when boring one of these blocks.

I hear the advice of just +T my current motor, but really how much would I really save? And I'd still have a motor not originally designed for a turbo and not as good, from what I have read of a transmission.
 
Yes, top of the line high nickel content.

I think it is a bit of a chunk to spend that much. But I think it would be worth it to get the lowest mileage engine and trans you can find. So if it's in your budget it is worth it. Plus not having to pull an engine and have a shell around helps things a long with you getting right to the project. The squirters themselves shouldn't be the deciding factor but it is nice if they are already there.
 
dl242gt said:
...... But I think it would be worth it to get the lowest mileage engine and trans you can find. So if it's in your budget it is worth it. Plus not having to pull an engine and have a shell around helps things a long with you getting right to the project. The squirters themselves shouldn't be the deciding factor but it is nice if they are already there.
Click to expand...

Over the last ~4 years looking over 95 940s in the ATL Pullaparts, I'm surprised how many mid 100K NA cars show up. Prices I'm guessing are significantly higher in the NE states..... but the local price for several hours of labor gets you the dream 95 squirter block (with NA pistons you must replace to boost). I've got one of these on a stand in the shop right now (141K) and the AW71L that came from the same donor is in my son's 89 245 knocking down a consistent 26 or 27 MPG with the lockup converter.

My point - be patient OP and find a similar mid 100K mile 95 Donor. They do still exist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top