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Old 02-04-2008, 04:42 AM   #1
the poi
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Default I've increased rotational inertia and unsprung weight but don't really mind at all...



woo.

STS-V/CTS-V 14" rotors/4 piston calipers at each corner. Spent a lot of time/energy making sure everything was right so I don't plow into a preschool playground, and I'm really happy with how everything turned out.

So I guess we'll start with the fronts. The calipers mount in roughly the same spot as the original calipers, so an adapter wouldn't work. So I scored some steel rod from McMaster and made new ears to weld on. A lot of measuring, tacking, trench-digging, and welding later, we get here:





This side was the annoying one--the caliper mounts about 2mm in past the original mounting ear, so the new ear had to be set in a little bit. After tacking, I cut a deep enough "trench" on the seam so that I has somewhere to fill with the weld, and to make sure I penetrated through. It actually welded very nicely--used a 220v 175amp on max power, and C25. Cleaned up the area with the Dremel, and repeated 4 times.

Fit a nice big fillet on the other side though:



For the rotors, the 6 bolt pattern was re-drilled to 5, and the 70mm CB was centered by a rounded 1/8" aluminum wire, hammered a little to widen the profile a bit. They work awesome, the rotor snaps on now.



All mounted up:



The rears were a little different. There was enough room for an adapter, so, enter the 3-axis CNC, and get this inhuman chunk of 6061:



Ya ya, would've cut a pretty profile around it, but I ran out of time and didn't have the materials to make a fixture to hold it, so whatever. Works thusly:



Rotors mounted like the fronts, but the center bore cut was different, so the wire was replaced by 1/4"x0.050 brass sheets, rounded, and staggered so the gaps didn't do anything crazy. Also makes for a delightful snap fit.



Hydraulics!

Wilwood proportioning valve to the rears to keep me from plowing into a preschool playground backwards shown here:



Terrible picture of brake line here:



The adapter is welded onto the body mount, so the hardline is firmly attached to the chassis. Using Earl's pre-made lines, 10mm banjo on one side, -3AN chassis side. Same deal on the back:



Connected like this:



I hesitated to ziptie the line to the spring cause it just felt wrong somehow, but it's really the only good thing to connect to. It doesn't rotate (the spring is under tension at droop), and the coils certainly don't come close to binding, so I can't rationally find anything wrong with it.

They spinnin




So two questions. First, have I done anything terribly wrong, great internet fabricators? I really don't want to find myself in the playground.

Second: why in god's name can't I bleed brakes? After a complete bleed of the calipers, bleed at the MC, I have a spongy pedal with 80mm of throw instead of the 50 its supposed to be. From a completely-drained system, how much fluid should I get out at the end of all 4 wheels? I bled everything in the right order and all, and stopped bleeding a good while after the last air-bubble went out at each (of 8) bleed screws. But, I'm wondering if there was a "column" of fluid somewhere that tricked me into thinking I was getting new fluid when there was still air in the system. The old fluid had about 2000 miles on it, so I couldn't tell a difference between the old and new fluid. Anyway, I have enough fluid for another bleeding, so I wanna know how much I should drain off at each corner to ensure I'm starting from scratch (I really wish I had some Super Blue). Is there maybe air in the ABS accumulators or something? Questions/comments/snide remarks all welcome.

Few more pics here: http://www.pbase.com/765ti/suspensio...rakes&page=all
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:59 AM   #2
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Hot diggity. Spongy pedal could mayhaps be caused by an undersized master cylinder
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:02 AM   #3
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Point 1: Looks like sechs. I dig.

Point 2: I <3 my motive pressure bleeder, mayhaps one of them might be a nice shindiggle.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:08 AM   #4
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Hopefully it is not undersized master. Keep in mind when you replace EVERYTHING all together on the brakes and nothing is bedded in the feel won't be great.

One thought though, did you bleed the lines at the master cylinder as well or just at the calipers?

In terms of fabrication it looks ok to me FWIW. The fronts are big chunks of aluminum hanging WAY out there, but considering the direction of the forces involved it shouldnt' be an issue. Although you are still the spokesperson for why radial mount is a good thing.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:14 AM   #5
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Although you are still the spokesperson for why radial mount is a good thing.


I bled at the MC, although I just realized I just opened the bleeders until a column of fluid came out, i never pumped the pedal. There's probably still a bubble (or two) in the MC then right?
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:20 AM   #6
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I bled at the MC, although I just realized I just opened the bleeders until a column of fluid came out, i never pumped the pedal. There's probably still a bubble (or two) in the MC then right?

Right, it is often helpful to treat the fittings at the MC literally like bleeders and bleed the lines.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:20 AM   #7
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I have seem simular welding done on brake bits for race cars, and I'm having a deja vu moment looking at yours to what I have seen possibly on some big power Swedish Volvo drift project?.

As to the bleed, something I read when replacing my brake fluid last about possibly needing to reverse bleed the master?.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:00 AM   #8
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Quote:
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Hot diggity. Spongy pedal could mayhaps be caused by an undersized master cylinder
Big +1. I noticed the same thing when going to 4 piston Nissens from 2 piston floating calipers on a front end swap (motorcycles) many moons ago. Get self big cylinder. Fly with eagle.
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Old 02-04-2008, 09:44 AM   #9
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could you bore it and put in a bigger piston? i tink the stock one is tapered tho
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Old 02-04-2008, 11:48 AM   #10
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Neato!
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:31 PM   #11
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now you just have to make the car somehow lighter so you dont have to use the brakes quite as hard
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Old 02-04-2008, 02:51 PM   #12
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Nice looking brakes there.

I'm usually super-nervous about making modifications such as this, but making the new fixing points any better than that would've involved a whole lot of machining time.

So, when are we going to see a head-to-head from the two most productive and innovative fabricators on the board on the battle of the sixes? I'm talking about the poi and cap'n Bondo of course.
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:16 PM   #13
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Am I the only one who thinks the ‘hole drilling thing’ in rotors is not done?

the hole next to the bolt is near another hole...
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-lennium View Post
Am I the only one who thinks the ‘hole drilling thing’ in rotors is not done?

the hole next to the bolt is near another hole...
they're centered on the hub my main man. will be held on by the wheels...


very impressive btw
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:36 PM   #15
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Am I the only one who thinks the ‘hole drilling thing’ in rotors is not done?

the hole next to the bolt is near another hole...
I think you are over reacting.....the clamping force of wheel being bolted on will be far greater than the clamping force of the calipers


Look nice.....never thought I'd caddy parts being used as an upgrade !!!!

supposedly new ZR1 motor might go into a caddy !!!
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Old 02-04-2008, 03:48 PM   #16
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I got the impression that ABS cars should be bled with the engine running. I guess you will also have to tap on the calipers and lines to get every last freaking bubble out. Nice upgrade, though.
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:08 PM   #17
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I think you are over reacting.....the clamping force of wheel being bolted on will be far greater than the clamping force of the calipers

!
totaly forgot about that one :P
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:29 PM   #18
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looking good
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Old 02-04-2008, 04:38 PM   #19
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Powerbleeder......

Or could be too small of an MC (I mean, you did just up your piston count by what... 10??)

Is the pedal soft, or when it reaches the end of hte throw, does it really stiffen up. Spongy or soft is air... rock solid, but a long throw, probably too small of an MC.... try putting all the bias towards the front, see if the throw decreases significantly. Were you ever able to figure out the CTS/STS V MC dimensions???

Looks good though, can't wait to see what you have in store next (M90/Getrag/T56 swap?????).
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:03 PM   #20
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HIDs, then a T5 if the rear-end doesn't explode, and if I get a decent yob . I fixed the bubbles though! The MC was about 80% of the problem, after bleeding that properly, and rebleeding all the brakes with the assistant method (which works like way faster than everything else, I dunno why everyone knocks it [thanks ma!]). The pedal stiffened up to where it should be. There's is too much throw, so it'll need a bigger MC. I'm about to go test it, so we'll see how it works, than I suppose I'll call up Wilwood at some point with the necessary measurements and get the right MC specced out. Woo. Sure hope I don't plow into anything.
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Old 02-04-2008, 05:53 PM   #21
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woo. Test drive=success! They work awesome, the bias is great with the prop valve at its lowest setting-57%, but if I find a runway I'll do more testing. Definitely needs a bigger MC. The feel is rad, and they stop smooth (and quiet, woo for OEM Ferrodos!), its just spread over a long pedal throw. Shame that the MC is brand spankin new, but them's the...brakes. AHAHAHA, I kill me.

edit:// and they look tremendously badass behind the rimps
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Old 02-04-2008, 06:19 PM   #22
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nice...
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:05 PM   #23
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looks awesome. Didn't know you could weld cast with mig welder and have it last.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:07 PM   #24
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amazing, Cadillac brake parts as an upgrade... cars have come a long way over the years.
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Old 02-04-2008, 07:15 PM   #25
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looks awesome. Didn't know you could weld cast with mig welder and have it last.
The knuckle's actually a forging. They're not Cadillac per se anyway, they're just Brembos
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