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Old 03-01-2008, 11:02 PM   #1
MrBill
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Default Can I "braze" my exhaust?

I want to do this to both cars, but first I'd like to try the 760 and some less-expensive exhaust piping (2 1/2 I think)

So I have a fine downpipe, and front section of the exhaust. But somewhere the exhaust just sucks. It has some sort of volvo s70 section with the chrome tip, but it is so low to the ground that it drags pretty bad over speed bumps and stuff.

My parents were having some sort of artistocratic party tonight and my dad told me one of the guys there used to weld for the navy. I presented him with my problem (the 242 lacks exhaust) and he said he wouldn't recommend me try to weld an exhaust without some sort of training. He then suggested brazing. Now, I know brazing is sorta like a mans version of soldering, but is it possible? Does my exhaust (the pipes) get too hot for a braze?

I'd really like to initially try this on the 760. He said brazing wasn't as strong as welding, but he said it would be plenty-strong for an exhaust.

Possible? No?
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:05 PM   #2
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I don't see any problems with welding. Just practice on some sections of pipe first. There's really not much to it.
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:14 PM   #3
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I've brazed together tons of truck/tractor/equipment exhausts, and they've lasted for years and years. Should work fine...
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Karl Buchka View Post
I don't see any problems with welding. Just practice on some sections of pipe first. There's really not much to it.
heres the issue with welding... I need a welder! I have one I can use at the parent's place, but its been used once (one of those electric ones with the stick that comes out the middle) I dont know much about it, other than its "a good one"

He also has the torch fire thing, but im not quite sure how that works.

Now... IIRC I can braze with the red bottle'd propane torch, yes? The one you can get at lowes i think? So I can cut the exhaust, figure out what im going to do, and easily put it together.

I mean it seems just as simple as soldering... while welding is not.

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Originally Posted by mAydAy View Post
I've brazed together tons of truck/tractor/equipment exhausts, and they've lasted for years and years. Should work fine...
you used what tools? I hope to simply use the propane torch and rods.

I want:
http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100065
http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100033

Can stainless steel be brazed?
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:31 PM   #5
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Hmmm, brazing would have the advantage of filling teh slip joints with metal too, meaning no leaks or corrosion. You will need to design slip joints if brazing pipes together, you can't braze butt joints. Either that or cut sleeves to fit inside/outside of teh pipe.
Brazing would rule out aluminised or galvanised steel, SS can be brazed just fine.
But, why not buy a MIG? You only need a small one to weld thin wass exhaust tubing, and that small, light duty welder will be well suited to sheet metal repairs.
I currently have a small MIG and a medium size arc welder, the MIG does the little things and aluminium, and the arc welder does structural repairs etc.

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Old 03-01-2008, 11:47 PM   #6
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Well a torch is NOT nearly as expensive. I actually have 2 3 inch slip joints for the 3" on the 242, but I would need more I suppose...

Why can't I butt-joint them?

http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100072

Thats what I want
After quick research, the MAPP gas seems to be what I need

also this:
http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100065
Quote:
General purpose brazing rod for steels, copper, galvanized or a combination of these materials
Would combination mean stainless or aluminized?
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:49 PM   #7
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Yep, here is the start of my 3" exhaust, it is longer now and holding much more weight and it's still doing fine.
Attachment 4505

Attachment 4506

Attachment 4507
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:53 PM   #8
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win.
wow
really win. I feel like... for the first time... I can actually do something myself
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:59 PM   #9
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I have previously brazed with a mapp gas and oxygen torch. (You need to have a Mapp+O2 if you intend to do any). It's cheap, but its also pretty pathetic and lacks any nuts to do it very effectively or quickly. It frustrated me because it just didn't have the power to get through anything very quickly, didn't have the power to cut, and those little tiny tanks like that don't last very long I scrapped my Mapp/O2 setup when it blew up on me one day (I didn't dip the tip in and clog it either, it was strange), and I haven't looked back since. I've done a lot more brazing using an acetalyne torch, which works well.

You're probably better off sucking it up and buying a mig welder.
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:05 AM   #10
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http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...s.jhtml?type=2
It says you only need the mapp gas to do it? I mean all I plan on doing is a side exit, so one long straight piece with glasspack, 45* bend, then straight peice.

downpipe to straight section
Straight section to muffler
muffler to more straight section
straight section to 45*
45* to straight section
EXIT
If its true you cannot butt them together, that makes 5 of those slip joints, or 10 joints...
Ah, and the hangers, gotta have a few of them!

Really not possible w/out o2? *frown*....
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Old 03-02-2008, 02:24 AM   #11
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You might want to consider using stainless band clamps and just putting together an exhaust with butt joints. Rob had most of the 3" exhaust on his bertone clamped together and it fell off a couple times from dragging on speed bumps or into driveways. The downpipe was a little too long, so the whole exhaust hung too low and always dragged on stuff. If the downpipe is the right length, I think you could get it tucked up pretty close to the floor. Bullet muffler on the downpipe, straight pipe, 90° bend, out the side. Or straight pipe, muffler, turn down tip under the car. If you want a rear exit exhaust, it's going to take considerably more work and material.

If you did any brazing, the pipes would have to overlap. A pipe expander would definitely be useful. The ones I've seen go into the pipe and require an impact gun to tighten a bolt into the center, which expands the device inside the pipe.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBill View Post
Why can't I butt-joint them?
You can butt joint them. They will break after a few bumps though.

Tip - don't believe everything you read in advertisements.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:48 AM   #13
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Brazing would work well for fixing cracked 90+ Manifolds I would think. Does it need to be heated beforehand like it does prior to welding?
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
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he said he wouldn't recommend me try to weld an exhaust without some sort of training
I learned to weld by myself. I just bought a welder.

It was a couple hundred dollars at Home Depot. It's a flux-core wire-feed. Really easy to use. And exhaust is a GREAT place to start, because it isn't structural, so if you screw it up some, no one dies.

You say your parents have a welder. Who bought it? Why won't that person teach you to use it? Or, why not teach yourself to use it?

Seriously, it's not that hard. Apparently you CAN braze exhaust, from what everyone has said, but why bother if you already have access to a welder?

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Old 03-02-2008, 11:14 AM   #15
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Cut a section and slot it so it fits over the joint,then sleeve it.
Also known as a gusset.
Braze away
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:20 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBill View Post
Well a torch is NOT nearly as expensive. I actually have 2 3 inch slip joints for the 3" on the 242, but I would need more I suppose...

Why can't I butt-joint them?

http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100072

Thats what I want
After quick research, the MAPP gas seems to be what I need

also this:
http://www.bernzomatic.com/bernzomat...rnzoProd100065

Would combination mean stainless or aluminized?
brazing gets it's strength from the surface area applied to, a butt joint wouldn't have much surface area like a lap joint would

just make sure everything is clean, and to help with the annoying fumes, place a fan nearby to suck the fumes away
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:04 PM   #17
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Thanks for all the replies guys.

I considered the pipe expander, and I will have to source one that will do 3" pipe (I bet harbor freight has one that will break when I need it most)

I DO have some of those pipe slip joints. They fit the bend I have fine, but the 3 inch muffler is the same diameter as the joint, so to use it I'd have to expand the slip joint, which I don't think is a great idea (although ill do it anyways)

Mayday had said I need oxygen, can anyone confirm this? I know he knows what he's doing, but if I can avoid unnecessary costs, I would like to...


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Brazing would work well for fixing cracked 90+ Manifolds I would think. Does it need to be heated beforehand like it does prior to welding?
I thought the same thing (for my crack in the wastegate hole too!). I am also curious if it would be possible to braze myself one of those log manifolds... I can just imagine it getting too hot and just falling apart during a run at the drag strip
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I learned to weld by myself. I just bought a welder.

It was a couple hundred dollars at Home Depot. It's a flux-core wire-feed. Really easy to use. And exhaust is a GREAT place to start, because it isn't structural, so if you screw it up some, no one dies.

You say your parents have a welder. Who bought it? Why won't that person teach you to use it? Or, why not teach yourself to use it?

Seriously, it's not that hard. Apparently you CAN braze exhaust, from what everyone has said, but why bother if you already have access to a welder?

Aaron
Well it's at my parents, which is "home" But I live in an apartment during school and don't have easy access to the welder. I really would like to go to doug and matt's shop and give the side-pipe a shot to see if this is a practical and attainable thing for me to do. Welding means going home, getting welder, going to shop, burning hole in expensive metals, and returning welder, perhaps broken
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:38 PM   #18
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the only way to properly butt joint two tubes using "brazing" (i.e. silver soldering or similar) would be to use an oxy acetylene torch and some seriously good technique. It is much harder to push solder around a tubular join using an acetylene torch without overheating the joint and making a mess than it is to just use a mig welder (as you can tack weld the tubes in place first).

and, from now seeing the above post you definitely shouldn't consider using an oxy-acetylene torch if you are scared of breaking an arc or mig!
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Old 03-02-2008, 03:18 PM   #19
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Just get a cheapo MIG welder from harbor freight when they go on sale. Cost will be comparable, you'll have more versatility, and novice mig welds are probably stronger than novice brazing connections for this application.
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Old 03-02-2008, 11:21 PM   #20
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Wait a minute here...

So somebody said you should braze your exhaust because you need some trainging before mig welding it?

Brazing something correctly requires way more skill than mig welding exhaust pipe. Proper brazing technique involves proper joint prep and considerable manual dexterity.

MIG welding requires you know how to operate a hot glue gun.

Navy welder or not the guy is full of it.

Also brazing it properly will require an oxy-acetylene or oxy-propane setup- which will cost as much as a 120v mig welder.

Just get a welder.
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:38 AM   #21
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your parents have a welder?

just get out there and try it, using a mig is like drawing with a crayon it's easy to do a mediocre job, the worst thing you'll do is burn holes and make a big warty thing.

just try it, you'll find it's easy enough to get by with, and if you do it in your b-day suit you won't get any tan lines - just be sure to wear eye protection and don't touch it when it's hot ... you know common sense ....
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:53 AM   #22
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MIG welding requires you know how to operate a hot glue gun.
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Old 03-03-2008, 01:56 AM   #23
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Well I went to home depot today...

It is $50 for the Mapp gas and oxy kit, plus the rods of brazing stuff, plus flux, plus the little cloth you use to clean stuff, plus another few tanks of each, and it seems everyone here was right... I just need to use a welder

I guess I'll wait it out until my parents come up and get the welder then
It would also be nice to fashion a way to *mount* the exhaust to the car...
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:11 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Well I went to home depot today...

It is $50 for the Mapp gas and oxy kit, plus the rods of brazing stuff, plus flux, plus the little cloth you use to clean stuff, plus another few tanks of each, and it seems everyone here was right... I just need to use a welder

I guess I'll wait it out until my parents come up and get the welder then
It would also be nice to fashion a way to *mount* the exhaust to the car...
Go ahead and learn how to braze though, it's a great skill to have. Repair your own radiators etc.
Get a book called Welder's Handbook.

Regards, Andrew.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:07 PM   #25
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I've tried to braze steel stuff together with just a MAPP torch.. doesn't work too well.. ended up using oxy/acetylene. Oxy/MAPP will probably be alright.
As was mentioned above, brazing is awesome if you have slip joints, because you get a huge surface area holding the parts together. It's extremely strong.
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