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Old 02-12-2004, 11:44 PM   #1
boostdemon
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Theres a new group for those members with 300hp or more...
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showgroups.php

this is a way to recognize those who have invested the time and effort in getting to where many folks only talk about.

Complimentary special edition 300+ stickers will be awarded to all those who do and will qualify. (not available yet but you'll get them)

Find out how you qualify:

You will need an engine dyno reading (doubt anyone will have this) or a chassis dyno (rolling dyno for your Europeans) with 15% loss for Automatics or 12% for manuals. thats 255rwhp for autos and 264rwhp for manuals

update: sorry folks, this is Nitrous free... some may argue its the same as someone using water or methanol injection, however what we're looking for is constant positive power, not in spurts. Sorry.

PLEASE CONTACT HANK SCORPIO IF YOU'VE APPLIED AND HAVEN'T BEEN APPROVED YET

To apply for the group click on "group memberships" in your profile menu. Please PM Hank Scorpio with your dyno sheet and info when you apply.

Here is the actual 300+ thread: http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/sh...ad.php?t=92271
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:18 AM   #2
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hrm dana....**perhaps this is more of a good estimate...guess we'll see when we compare numbers with someone with a dyno chart and 1/4 mile time/mph**

oh well ill be in this club....someday
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:31 AM   #3
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interesting.. plugging in the numbers i ran at the track and then cross referencing them with numbers on the dyno puts my cars weight with driver in the 2700lb range... nice.....
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Old 02-13-2004, 01:05 AM   #4
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I am down
I figure my car weighs at least 3200 with me in it and i trap 98
soo i guess i am In
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:03 AM   #5
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I'd suggest we only take those with dyno sheets.

With my car weight at 2950 and my ET at 17.439, it says 109.9rwhp. The Mustang dyno says 85.6rwhp.

At 72% drivetrain loss, I'm in!
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:07 AM   #6
boostdemon
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work up some better number calculations if you've got the resouces... i do see some errors in using benchracing calcs for it. maybe someone withe a confirmed 300hp can get some better conversions?
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:15 AM   #7
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Go from Trap speeds.

I know Kenny's car isn't 2700 lbs, and I know it sure as hell isn't with him in it. (remeber, to cheat in that game, you want your car heavier :wink

100mph traps aren't 300bhp in anything under 3k lbs, not likey even at 3200lbs. Probably high 280's.

http://www.smokemup.com/auto_math/hp_mph.php

now, Pats car dynoed ~ 220whp iirc, he bumped the boost a few more pounds, we figured 240 and trapped 100. His car was lighter, probably no more than 2950 loaded, and according to them he only made 195whp, but 247bhp. Their BHP actually seems to be more like whp.

Course, heres the kicker. This ONLY accounts for the amount of power you put to the ground effectively (ie no wheel spin). I burned the crap out of my tires, only trapped a 100, so I effectively put down little HP.

what I would consider doing: 13.5 or quicker earns a 300hp member sticker no questions asked (provided the car is indeed over lets say, 2700lbs).
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:17 AM   #8
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In a 740 wagon, with regular trim you would have to trap about.... 107mph with a manual or... 105mph with an auto....... so im only about.... 13mph off...
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Old 02-13-2004, 02:51 AM   #9
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oh well i guess i am out then
maybe some other time
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Old 02-13-2004, 08:00 AM   #10
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cool, a goal. We'll see what happens this summer. :wink:


and no, cullen, your not here yet.
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Old 02-13-2004, 10:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryckjävel
You will need an engine dyno reading (doubt anyone will have this) or a chassis dyno (rolling dyno for your Europeans) with 15% loss for Automatics or 12% for manuals. thats 255rwhp for autos and 264rwhp for manuals
Rwhp from a dyno is not very reliable with a fixed loss%.
Even on the same dyno you can have varying loss % depending on strap-down force, angle of the car, tire pressure etc.

One-roller dynos (where the wheels are placed on top of one roller) have far less loss % than a two-roller dyno (where you put the wheels between two rollers). Tire size/profile have more of an effect on the two roller dyno than a one roller dyno.
So the only way to actually get a estimation of the flywheel hp is with a dyno that measures the losses (coastdown), NOT by using a fixed loss %. A dyno with SAE or DIN correction is probably as accurate as you can get.

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Old 02-13-2004, 10:44 AM   #12
Hank Scorpio
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I think were breathing to much into this guys.

How about this: 13.5 2800lbs or better, or 275whp.

:wink:
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Old 02-13-2004, 11:37 AM   #13
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honestly if you put down a 260 rwhp dyno chart you're good enough into the 300hp range. Until someone measures the actual loss in a M46 and 2 piece shaft, 3.73 gears, etc... the 15% and 12% will suit.

yes doug, a 275whp will put you in the club, anything less from you and you're in your own club of mechanical failures :-p
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:44 PM   #14
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What about Torque.. my clutch is out like a loose hooker, so I've had to keep my boost set at 8psi. My last dyno chart (1/28/04) reflected 187.8hp at 5000 and 232.2 ft/lbs of torque at 3100.. I've got enough fuel to turn the boost up to 15psi but my clutch wont allow it. I'll keep you guys updated. I'll try to get to school and make some Dyno runs with my new straight exhaust.
Alot of people have asked me what my 1/4mi times are->I dont drag race, sorry!
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Old 02-13-2004, 03:57 PM   #15
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So it is 300 crank brake hp? Not wheel?
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:10 PM   #16
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yes... the goal is a reachable hp rating that most people can get to w/o having to do major work. possibly in the future we can do a 400hp rating which would include those folks who have gone to full forged internals and lots of engineering
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:44 PM   #17
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or a big ole bottle (hey, it'd work a few times :wink

lol, I want the "biggest turbo=least HP" sticker
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Old 02-13-2004, 04:52 PM   #18
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The way dyno charts have been looking, you're going to have damn-near 400 ft/lbs to get 300 hp. Not that that's bad, it's just that it seems easy to get torque out of our engines, but hard to get hp. Must be their tractor engine ancestry showing.
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Old 02-13-2004, 05:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Hulting
The way dyno charts have been looking, you're going to have damn-near 400 ft/lbs to get 300 hp. Not that that's bad, it's just that it seems easy to get torque out of our engines, but hard to get hp. Must be their tractor engine ancestry showing.
you think? :wink:
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Old 02-13-2004, 06:14 PM   #20
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With the oversquare dimensions, 80mm stroke etc, the motors would tend to make more whp than tq. It would seem the limiting factor is mass flow, from either the head or the cams, or both. Not to mention other mass flow/pumping losses.

Also, the low static CR of the b21ft will tend to make more tq, for given hp.
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Old 02-13-2004, 09:03 PM   #21
boostdemon
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wouldnt it be the other way around? i.e. 7.5:1 B21FT making 135whp and 180ftlbs of torque and a 9:1 B230F+T making 180whp and like 290 ftlbs of torque?
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Old 02-13-2004, 09:37 PM   #22
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ya, thats what Im wondering.
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Old 02-13-2004, 09:55 PM   #23
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No, this is always so. Lower static compression with higher boost, will make more torque <--- not always a good thing. A higher static CR motor making the same whp (will need less boost to do so) as the low compression motor, will make less torque. Higher CR will also be more octane limted as far as making power, and generally needs very good EMS control, compared to the lower compression motor...
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Old 02-13-2004, 10:11 PM   #24
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ahh, but you make more power... **** thread jack.

take it to another thread :wink:

I can tell you right now my b23FT at 14 psi has WAY more torque than my 21FT ever did at 14psi.
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Old 02-13-2004, 10:33 PM   #25
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Ah not fully correct. I would also hope the heck so you make more power with higher static CR with the same boost to a point... add more boost for each motor, to the limit of the knock index of the fuel (say 93 pump gas, or 91 in cali), then report back 8-)
You will reach a knock limit sooner with higher static CR.

Heh, yeh we are jacking the thread
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