Ignition/cam timing

Gregerivn · 10-13-2008, 01:29 AM

Hi TB's I have a few questions regarding squeezing every last ounce out of my current setup. I have Fred's chips for both fuel and ignition and after rereading his FAQ i gather that the EZK is currently running as much advanced timing as possible across the board. Is this correct. How about grounding certain pins on the EZK? Which ones? Will this set the base ignition to a more advanced level, from which the EZK will continue to function properly? Also I am about ready to hook up a Nitrous kit and plan to start with a small (35hp) jet. I understand that retarding the cam timing is a good idea when spraying, is that correct? Would getting more advanced ignition timing work against me when spraying? I should also mention I am running about 21-22 psi on the 13c and am injecting Methanol coming on at ~10 psi. I may not have supplied enough info to have all these questions answered so feel free to ask for more.

Thanks in advance,
Greg Ervin

PS it is going on 3 years now and I would really appreciate it if a mod would change my screen name to Gregervin rather than Gregerivn to reflect the correct spelling

Gregerivn · 10-13-2008, 05:07 PM

I don't post much, so I don't know if getting no response is normal or not.

Mueller · 10-13-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

I understand that retarding the cam timing is a good idea when spraying, is that correct?

I think you mean ignition timing

ezk tweaking via grounding pins
with the pin grounding trick, you could use a micro-switch to ground the pins only when the nitrous is activated

Gregerivn · 10-13-2008, 09:25 PM

That is good. I wonder what parts would be needed to make a switch to go from 6* retard to 0* to 3* advance maybe a simple 3 way switch? Has anyone done this yet?

L8 APEKS · 10-13-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregerivn

I am running about 21-22 psi on the 13c

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregerivn

Stock internals, LH2.4, 13c and AW71. 13.157@98.73

Man, good for you. Do you know how many tools on this board will tell you that what you're running on the 13C is "not physically possible?" Nice work.

Gregerivn · 10-13-2008, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Man, good for you. Do you know how many tools on this board will tell you that what you're running on the 13C is "not physically possible?" Nice work.

That is one of the main reasons I have kept the 13c. I want to be the first one in the 12s with a 13c on boost.

Poik · 10-13-2008, 10:27 PM

How much does your car weigh again?

Gregerivn · 10-13-2008, 10:38 PM

about 2730 with me in it

L8 APEKS · 10-13-2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregerivn

about 2730 with me in it

So going with the accepted standard of 100 lbs = 1/10...

...that would be a 13.6 ET @ 3,230 lbs (stock curb weight)? Nice.

Gregerivn · 10-15-2008, 02:51 AM

I grounded pins 18 and 19 and I can feel a difference. More torque down low and overall smoother running. Is this consistent with others experience?

L8 APEKS · 10-15-2008, 03:31 AM

Haven't tried it, but now I'm curious! Any pics of how you did it?

I don't know much about electronics, but would it be feasible to ground those pins via a toggle switch on the dash, for when there's race gas in the tank?

HonestJhon · 10-15-2008, 04:24 AM

or e85 ;)

L8 APEKS · 10-15-2008, 04:20 PM

No such thing as E85 in SoCal.

If you're near Disneyland (north OC/south LA), the closest gas station that sells E85 is in EL CAJON, near the border of Mexico...roughly 125 miles away.

Mueller · 10-15-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

No such thing as E85 in SoCal.

If you're near Disneyland (north OC/south LA), the closest gas station that sells E85 is in EL CAJON, near the border of Mexico...roughly 125 miles away.

Un-real that California only has a handful of station with E85, I have a few not too far from my house, but cannot justify the switch right now...it would make my N/A build more fun !!!

E85 fill locations

I figured L.A. would have tons of them

L8 APEKS · 10-15-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mueller

Un-real that California only has a handful of station with E85, I have a few not too far from my house, but cannot justify the switch right now...it would make my N/A build more fun !!!

E85 fill locations

I figured L.A. would have tons of them

Nope...because the greedy companies that own the gas stations will LOSE MONEY if we "go green" and start using E85. They don't want to spend any money to switch over or add E85 pumps.

Priority List:
1) Profit
2) Environment

HonestJhon · 10-15-2008, 05:14 PM

but we're the greenest state man!

well, you could have it set up so when you're near e85 stations, you could put it in ;)
supposedly, they're putting a e85 plant in lancaster out this way...that processes garbage or something. but that doesnt mean the pumps will be everywhere.

also, to clarify, this only adjusts timing, not injector pulse widths or load signals? or is it messing with the load signal to add timing?

klr142 · 10-18-2008, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregerivn

I grounded pins 18 and 19 and I can feel a difference. More torque down low and overall smoother running. Is this consistent with others experience?

Yes, for the most part. I've done the same on my car but I barely feel it, if at all. Maybe.

Michael Garvin · 10-19-2008, 11:18 AM

Kyle, will we have to ground the pins with the Fred chip?

klr142 · 10-19-2008, 12:12 PM

We won't HAVE to, it's only if we want to and our setup can handle it. I'm going to be disconnecting my ground when I get the chips, as things will already be advanced compared to stock. I can't wait to see what it feels like! Lucky you already having yours! I was expecting them early last week, but it seems it'll be early this week...

After you get them in(and train them! stock injectors won't matter as much as my car requires it), you can always experiment with grounding pins again to see if your car does or doesn't mind more ignition advance. It'll be fun for me to monitor the way Fred's chips play with air/fuel ratios compared to stock in different situations too. Hopefully at WOT and lower rpm it's richer than stock... Between more fuel and ignition timing at lower rpm, it could really strengthen the powerband. I don't know what LH2.4 is capable of though, it doesn't really have a good way of telling what WOT is(amount of airflow sure, but that goes up with better and better breathing engines) without a throttle position sensor.

10-13-2008, 01:29 AM	#1
Gregerivn Board Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Eugene Or	Ignition/cam timing Hi TB's I have a few questions regarding squeezing every last ounce out of my current setup. I have Fred's chips for both fuel and ignition and after rereading his FAQ i gather that the EZK is currently running as much advanced timing as possible across the board. Is this correct. How about grounding certain pins on the EZK? Which ones? Will this set the base ignition to a more advanced level, from which the EZK will continue to function properly? Also I am about ready to hook up a Nitrous kit and plan to start with a small (35hp) jet. I understand that retarding the cam timing is a good idea when spraying, is that correct? Would getting more advanced ignition timing work against me when spraying? I should also mention I am running about 21-22 psi on the 13c and am injecting Methanol coming on at ~10 psi. I may not have supplied enough info to have all these questions answered so feel free to ask for more. Thanks in advance, Greg Ervin PS it is going on 3 years now and I would really appreciate it if a mod would change my screen name to Gregervin rather than Gregerivn to reflect the correct spelling __________________ 90 740. Stock internals, LH2.4, 15g and AW71. 12.603@104.20

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10-13-2008, 05:07 PM	#2
Gregerivn Board Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Eugene Or	I don't post much, so I don't know if getting no response is normal or not.

10-13-2008, 09:25 PM	#4
Gregerivn Board Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Eugene Or	That is good. I wonder what parts would be needed to make a switch to go from 6* retard to 0* to 3* advance maybe a simple 3 way switch? Has anyone done this yet?

10-13-2008, 10:38 PM	#8
Gregerivn Board Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Eugene Or	about 2730 with me in it

10-15-2008, 02:51 AM	#10
Gregerivn Board Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Eugene Or	I grounded pins 18 and 19 and I can feel a difference. More torque down low and overall smoother running. Is this consistent with others experience?

10-15-2008, 03:31 AM	#11
L8 APEKS Yayayaya, hohohooo!!! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County, CA	Haven't tried it, but now I'm curious! Any pics of how you did it? I don't know much about electronics, but would it be feasible to ground those pins via a toggle switch on the dash, for when there's race gas in the tank?

10-15-2008, 04:24 AM	#12
HonestJhon Board Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: So Cal	or e85 ;)

10-15-2008, 04:20 PM	#13
L8 APEKS Yayayaya, hohohooo!!! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County, CA	No such thing as E85 in SoCal. If you're near Disneyland (north OC/south LA), the closest gas station that sells E85 is in EL CAJON, near the border of Mexico...roughly 125 miles away.

10-15-2008, 05:14 PM	#16
HonestJhon Board Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: So Cal	but we're the greenest state man! well, you could have it set up so when you're near e85 stations, you could put it in ;) supposedly, they're putting a e85 plant in lancaster out this way...that processes garbage or something. but that doesnt mean the pumps will be everywhere. also, to clarify, this only adjusts timing, not injector pulse widths or load signals? or is it messing with the load signal to add timing?

10-19-2008, 11:18 AM	#18
Michael Garvin Board Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ontario Canada	Kyle, will we have to ground the pins with the Fred chip?

10-19-2008, 12:12 PM	#19
klr142 Turbo, what? Join Date: May 2004 Location: OR	We won't HAVE to, it's only if we want to and our setup can handle it. I'm going to be disconnecting my ground when I get the chips, as things will already be advanced compared to stock. I can't wait to see what it feels like! Lucky you already having yours! I was expecting them early last week, but it seems it'll be early this week... After you get them in(and train them! stock injectors won't matter as much as my car requires it), you can always experiment with grounding pins again to see if your car does or doesn't mind more ignition advance. It'll be fun for me to monitor the way Fred's chips play with air/fuel ratios compared to stock in different situations too. Hopefully at WOT and lower rpm it's richer than stock... Between more fuel and ignition timing at lower rpm, it could really strengthen the powerband. I don't know what LH2.4 is capable of though, it doesn't really have a good way of telling what WOT is(amount of airflow sure, but that goes up with better and better breathing engines) without a throttle position sensor.