piggy back system for 97 850

sweedspeed18 · 10-22-2008, 06:25 PM

1997 850 glt lpt
looking to swap factory turbo, injectors, throttle body, ect
i was looking at the GReddy E-manage Engine Management system
any thoughts?

Alex Buchka · 10-23-2008, 12:26 AM

Why would you use a POS e-manage when you can use an OEM turbo ECU?

sweedspeed18 · 10-23-2008, 12:31 AM

because i can tune an emanage from my computer
i can't tune my fac ecu from my computer

Karl Buchka · 10-23-2008, 12:37 AM

A Megasquirt would cost you less and give you more.

sweedspeed18 · 10-23-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Buchka

A Megasquirt would cost you less and give you more.

the GReddy E-manage is $349 plus shipping
how much is MS? i'm looking on diyautotune.com right now and it seems like it's a lot more work than it should be
and there isn't a straight forward price on these systems

RvolvoR · 10-23-2008, 10:12 PM

piggyback = POS that doesnt work on an 850 ECU anyways...suck it up pal, we know what we're talking about...if you wanna buy something even after it was suggested not to, then you shouldnt have posted about buying it in the first place...

sweedspeed18 · 10-23-2008, 11:02 PM

how much is megasquirt for my car?

2fast242gt · 10-23-2008, 11:22 PM

your almost like yahmapro...

Karl Buchka · 10-23-2008, 11:25 PM

You can get an unassembled v2.2 pcb, a JAW, and a sensor for under $300. Then you have a fully programmable fuel and spark computer with a wideband.

L8 APEKS · 10-23-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl Buchka

You can get an unassembled v2.2 pcb, a JAW, and a sensor for under $300. Then you have a fully programmable fuel and spark computer with a wideband.

...once he pays someone to put it together and tune it for him, it's no longer $300.

Those piggybacks DO work. They aren't the end-all, be all...and they aren't meant to be. It would give him some more flexibility. It sounds like that's all he needs. MS would be overkill.

And I'd bet even money that people who say they don't work wired them wrong. I've seen them running just fine in VW's, Audis, Porsches, even a Saab.

MS isn't for everyone. It takes a lot of work to get it running and tune it properly. Something like an S-AFC is much more simple just to get some fine tuning in.

RvolvoR · 10-23-2008, 11:51 PM

no, they dont really work...kinda like a SFAC in an LH2.4 car....it doesnt work

L8 APEKS · 10-23-2008, 11:56 PM

As a matter of fact...when that debate happened, I told one of the head Techs at the Volvo dealership I was working at about it.

He then showed me his S-AFC Euro installed in his LH2.4/redblock 240 wagon and said it works fine. He told me they probably used the JDM version by mistake.

RvolvoR · 10-24-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

As a matter of fact...when that debate happened, I told one of the head Techs at the Volvo dealership I was working at about it.

He then showed me his S-AFC Euro installed in his LH2.4/redblock 240 wagon and said it works fine. He told me they probably used the JDM version by mistake.

it doesnt make a damn bit of difference....the safc will learn around it...basically, its an expensive tach with lots of lights

L8 APEKS · 10-24-2008, 12:17 AM

Not according to the 31 year master tech. Since he's tuning it and driving the car, I'm gonna tend to believe him and his gauges. A/F was tuned and holding just fine. LH didn't change it.

And FYI, tons of cars have ECU's that "learn." Volvos aren't unique in that respect.

RvolvoR · 10-24-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Not according to the 31 year master tech. Since he's tuning it and driving the car, I'm gonna tend to believe him and his gauges. A/F was tuned and holding just fine. LH didn't change it.

And FYI, tons of cars have ECU's that "learn." Volvos aren't unique in that respect.

youre a dumb bastard....and still a noob....search.

L8 APEKS · 10-24-2008, 12:43 AM

Ok. I must have been seeing things, and the Master Tech and Volvo tuner I used to work with must have been imagining the S-AFC working fine in his car.

RvolvoR · 10-24-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Ok. I must have been seeing things, and the Master Tech and Volvo tuner I used to work with must have been imagining the S-AFC working fine in his car.

for how long? and how often do they have to retune it?

L8 APEKS · 10-24-2008, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RvolvoR

for how long? and how often do they have to retune it?

From what I gather is has been in his car for a couple years. He only re-tunes when hard parts change. Wish I'd have gotten pics. He has an A/F. Mixture doesn't change. Meaning, the tune stays where he set it.

Just because someone on here tried it unsuccessfully, doesn't mean it can't work. By that logic, it's impossible for a 15G to run 13's.

I don't recall him saying he had to do anything special to it either. I think part of it may have been that he used the correct S-AFC (Select is the Euro version, reads the correct voltage signal...standard JDM S-AFC reads backwards for a Euro car, and will not work unless you make some changes).

But anywho...I know it works. I've seen it. I just don't know if he had to change anything in the install to make it work.

sweedspeed18 · 10-25-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

...once he pays someone to put it together and tune it for him, it's no longer $300.

Those piggybacks DO work. They aren't the end-all, be all...and they aren't meant to be. It would give him some more flexibility. It sounds like that's all he needs. MS would be overkill.

And I'd bet even money that people who say they don't work wired them wrong. I've seen them running just fine in VW's, Audis, Porsches, even a Saab.

MS isn't for everyone. It takes a lot of work to get it running and tune it properly. Something like an S-AFC is much more simple just to get some fine tuning in.

yea i'm not looking to go to the strip and run 10's lol
i just want a decent amount of hp to the wheels
maybe like a little under 300 because i really don't want to crack the engine open
exhaust, chip, injectors, and a new turbo, probably garrett or GReddy. so the dp and exhaust will be custom made (have that part under control lol)
thanks for the input, and where can i find an S-AFC pb? is there any difference in the universal pb's?

Obeharskad122s · 10-25-2008, 01:14 AM

With a MAF voltage clamp, and some O2 trickery piggybacks can hold a tune. BUT they still suck MAJOR ballsacks.

Aside from the AFC/SAFC's out there and their copycats, eManage is probably the worst option.
The AEM F/IC is marginally better, but it (and almost everything else out there) still blows compared to the MS/MegaTune/TunerStudio/LogViewer combo.

sweedspeed18 · 10-25-2008, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obeharskad122s

With a MAF voltage clamp, and some O2 trickery piggybacks can hold a tune. BUT they still suck MAJOR ballsacks.

Aside from the AFC/SAFC's out there and their copycats, eManage is probably the worst option.
The AEM F/IC is marginally better, but it (and almost everything else out there) still blows compared to the MS/MegaTune/TunerStudio/LogViewer combo.

reason being...

Obeharskad122s · 10-25-2008, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweedspeed18

reason being...

Reason for what?

eManage vs F/IC or eManage and FIC vs MS?

Mueller · 10-25-2008, 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweedspeed18

because i can tune an emanage from my computer
i can't tune my fac ecu from my computer

from a quick search, that price you posted does not include the software or cable to go from the e-manage to your laptop, add another $130 to your price....

another thing that you might have missed?? you have a 5 cylinder.....looking at the doc's for the e-manage, 3, 4, 6 and 8 are supported...I guess if it can do a 3 cylinder with a distributor, it should handle a 5 cylinder....only problem is can you set the switch that you turn to tell it how many cylinders to 5??

sweedspeed18 · 10-25-2008, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mueller

from a quick search, that price you posted does not include the software or cable to go from the e-manage to your laptop, add another $130 to your price....

another thing that you might have missed?? you have a 5 cylinder.....looking at the doc's for the e-manage, 3, 4, 6 and 8 are supported...I guess if it can do a 3 cylinder with a distributor, it should handle a 5 cylinder....only problem is can you set the switch that you turn to tell it how many cylinders to 5??

yea it's not really a switch, like it kinda is, but it's all mostly done on the computer
my friend has one and there's no cylinder option switch on the actual module
you set the cylinder # on the program
i'm not 100% sure how it works but for him it works great, it's not on a volvo though, or an odd number cyl engine so..

Obeharskad122s · 10-26-2008, 03:45 PM

Piggy backs with O2 emulators that intercept and modify 02 signals CAN allow you to properly tweak the stock ECU to get it to do what you want with regards to fuel only. Tuning such systems on OBD-2 (Everything since 1996, some ~94's and ~95's.) REQUIRES you monitor long term and short term fuel trims (how much the ECU is modifying the fuel map to get a desired closed loop AFR, seen by the ECU as a voltage) Otherwise the adjustments you make in the piggyback are useless and negated by the stock system. Piggybacks that have no provision for intercepting the O2 signal will be "learned" (more like adjusted) around when in closed loop, and are not suitable for more advanced stock ECU's. The ECU will adjust fuel trims up to a certain point, then it will throw a check engine light, often times putting the vehicle in limp dick...I mean limp home mode.

IF its even capable of modifying ignition timing, you can't advance it since the piggy back DELAYS the signal to the ecu from the CKP or CAS signal.

I have yet to see one with TPS-Dot accel enrichment, and snap-open-throttle tuning is nothing short of difficult to do when modifying MAF voltages on a turbocharged car. Often times you'll end up with a compromise between a clean AFR pull with a slow/steady throttle/engine acceleration and something that responds well to free rev and wild throttle activity.

Skewing the MAF voltages in most systems alters the ignition timing, so you inevitably end up compromising there as well.

10-22-2008, 06:25 PM	#1
sweedspeed18 Board Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Nazareth PA	piggy back system for 97 850 1997 850 glt lpt looking to swap factory turbo, injectors, throttle body, ect i was looking at the GReddy E-manage Engine Management system any thoughts?

10-23-2008, 10:12 PM	#6
RvolvoR Master Troublestarter Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: PDX	piggyback = POS that doesnt work on an 850 ECU anyways...suck it up pal, we know what we're talking about...if you wanna buy something even after it was suggested not to, then you shouldnt have posted about buying it in the first place... __________________ 340.9 whp 305 lb-ft @ 18 psi on e85 with a stock 8v head and b230f lower in a ****box 75

10-23-2008, 11:22 PM	#8
2fast242gt cheeseland highschool kid Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: appleton WI	your almost like yahmapro... __________________ 1980 241gt 6.0 lq4 swaped

10-25-2008, 01:14 AM	#20
Obeharskad122s Board Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Santa Rosa, Ca.	With a MAF voltage clamp, and some O2 trickery piggybacks can hold a tune. BUT they still suck MAJOR ballsacks. Aside from the AFC/SAFC's out there and their copycats, eManage is probably the worst option. The AEM F/IC is marginally better, but it (and almost everything else out there) still blows compared to the MS/MegaTune/TunerStudio/LogViewer combo. __________________ -Isaiah

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10-23-2008, 12:26 AM	#2
Alex Buchka 8 cylinders Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Göteborg, Sweden	Why would you use a POS e-manage when you can use an OEM turbo ECU?

10-23-2008, 12:31 AM	#3
sweedspeed18 Board Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Nazareth PA	because i can tune an emanage from my computer i can't tune my fac ecu from my computer

10-23-2008, 12:37 AM	#4
Karl Buchka Never go full retard. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden	A Megasquirt would cost you less and give you more.

10-23-2008, 11:02 PM	#7
sweedspeed18 Board Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Nazareth PA	how much is megasquirt for my car?

10-23-2008, 11:25 PM	#9
Karl Buchka Never go full retard. Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden	You can get an unassembled v2.2 pcb, a JAW, and a sensor for under $300. Then you have a fully programmable fuel and spark computer with a wideband.

10-23-2008, 11:51 PM	#11
RvolvoR Master Troublestarter Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: PDX	no, they dont really work...kinda like a SFAC in an LH2.4 car....it doesnt work

10-23-2008, 11:56 PM	#12
L8 APEKS Yayayaya, hohohooo!!! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County, CA	As a matter of fact...when that debate happened, I told one of the head Techs at the Volvo dealership I was working at about it. He then showed me his S-AFC Euro installed in his LH2.4/redblock 240 wagon and said it works fine. He told me they probably used the JDM version by mistake.

10-24-2008, 12:17 AM	#14
L8 APEKS Yayayaya, hohohooo!!! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County, CA	Not according to the 31 year master tech. Since he's tuning it and driving the car, I'm gonna tend to believe him and his gauges. A/F was tuned and holding just fine. LH didn't change it. And FYI, tons of cars have ECU's that "learn." Volvos aren't unique in that respect.

10-24-2008, 12:43 AM	#16
L8 APEKS Yayayaya, hohohooo!!! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orange County, CA	Ok. I must have been seeing things, and the Master Tech and Volvo tuner I used to work with must have been imagining the S-AFC working fine in his car.

10-26-2008, 03:45 PM	#25
Obeharskad122s Board Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Santa Rosa, Ca.	Piggy backs with O2 emulators that intercept and modify 02 signals CAN allow you to properly tweak the stock ECU to get it to do what you want with regards to fuel only. Tuning such systems on OBD-2 (Everything since 1996, some ~94's and ~95's.) REQUIRES you monitor long term and short term fuel trims (how much the ECU is modifying the fuel map to get a desired closed loop AFR, seen by the ECU as a voltage) Otherwise the adjustments you make in the piggyback are useless and negated by the stock system. Piggybacks that have no provision for intercepting the O2 signal will be "learned" (more like adjusted) around when in closed loop, and are not suitable for more advanced stock ECU's. The ECU will adjust fuel trims up to a certain point, then it will throw a check engine light, often times putting the vehicle in limp dick...I mean limp home mode. IF its even capable of modifying ignition timing, you can't advance it since the piggy back DELAYS the signal to the ecu from the CKP or CAS signal. I have yet to see one with TPS-Dot accel enrichment, and snap-open-throttle tuning is nothing short of difficult to do when modifying MAF voltages on a turbocharged car. Often times you'll end up with a compromise between a clean AFR pull with a slow/steady throttle/engine acceleration and something that responds well to free rev and wild throttle activity. Skewing the MAF voltages in most systems alters the ignition timing, so you inevitably end up compromising there as well.