19t>>15g

[L8 APEKS]

TD04HL-13G-6cm2
360 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
324 practical max CFM

TH04HL-15G-6cm2
428 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
405 practical max CFM

TD04HL-19T-6cm2
500 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
430 practical max CFM

...from Stealth 316's site. The jump from 15G>19T is smaller than the jump from 13C>15G...it's an improvement for sure, but my only beef with the 19T is cost and availability. Very rarely do they come up for sale, and new ones are close to $1000 on eBay sometimes.

Hard to turn away a Holset that makes very similar numbers and costs $165, and is available everywhere.

[TerribleOne]

Originally Posted by 740Weapon

and as far as i am concerned a holset is a terrible choice (for dragracing). you can't spool the things properly off the line so any additional amount of horsepower they can make doesn't really matter.

Eh.. I woudln't exactly say that.. see with our small tired cars it's kinda easy to overtorque the car coming out of the starting beams and with a TD04HL turbine housing of even 7cm you're choking the exhaust stream big time past 5000 which is where you end up going through the gears on a drag run, especially 1/4 mile tracks where wind resistance becomes even more of an issue.

So to say a holset is terrible for drag racing would be an un-true statement.

Pair your 19T against my 60-1 in equally setup 240s with the same tires etc..
up to the 330 mark it'd probably be reaction time and shift points.. but after the 1/8 mile I'd probably start walking you by a half car because I can move more air into the engine with a properly sized compressor housing, and I'll have less EBR to face once I get past 6800 where I usually shift. Ideally I'd trap a speed 2-3 mph faster.. which would indicate more HP which is kinda what I'd want with a car with small tires on a dragstrip.

[ZVOLV]

Im hanging out with the Rice Krispy dudes Snap and Krackle around 12psi on 15g. Stock 2.4 with bigger injectors. 15g hits fuel cut too No point in going bigger unless some tuning is done. I dont want to hang out with Pop.

[olov]

to l8:

one could say the same about a 15g, which CAN cost more than an equivalent t3, t3/t4 or holset

to each his own, but from what i've seen, the 19t is clearly bigger and better for a redblock than a 15g, so i agree with the op

[tryingbe]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

but my only beef with the 19T is cost and availability. Very rarely do they come up for sale, and new ones are close to $1000 on eBay sometimes.

I'm working to bring out some rebuilt 19T, for under $650.


Nice things about TD04HL type of turbos are, they are drop-in for 90+ or FWD guys with no modification needed or you can easily buy parts that are made for them.

[lookforjoe]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

TD04HL-13G-6cm2
360 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
324 practical max CFM

TH04HL-15G-6cm2
428 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
405 practical max CFM

TD04HL-19T-6cm2
500 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
430 practical max CFM

...from Stealth 316's site. The jump from 15G>19T is smaller than the jump from 13C>15G...it's an improvement for sure, but my only beef with the 19T is cost and availability. Very rarely do they come up for sale, and new ones are close to $1000 on eBay sometimes.

I can assure you that the performance difference going from 15/16 to 19T is vastly superior to the 13g/15g upgrade, regardless of what is posted on stealth's site (not tested on a Volvo, as I'm sure you're aware - the characteristics of the mitsu V6's they're testing them on are quite different. Also, the late angle housings are 7cm2, not 6 as he tested. Brand new (sold as reman, of course) 19T's from the dealer are $695 wholesale. Cheaper than 18T's.

[BDKR]

Originally Posted by lookforjoe

Yes, the rods are weak. Higher RPM's can handle it, it's just excessive torque @ low rpm - it's no different than NOS - you wouldn't want a sudden massive increase @ low rpm, it just can't handle it.

Still doesn't make sense, but that's cool. I still like the Whiteblock motors and Mitsu's. I have a Garrett now and I'm sure it's going to get closer to the promise land tho.

Originally Posted by BDKR

My guess would be that the ignition timing is too advanced for the amount of air that turbo is flowing at that RPM and the resulting detonation is what's bending the rods.

Originally Posted by EricF

I think it's something to do with cylinder pressure and piston speed, coupled with sensitivity to ignition timing. The 4 valve chambers are very fast-burning chambers, the 850's rod-stroke ratio sucks, and cylinder pressures are very high with high boost levels at low RPM.One degree of ignition angle means a whole heck of a lot more on an 850 than on a huge open chambered 8 valve redblock, and a lot more than at high RPM when you have more overall advance and the piston is moving a lot faster. This in addition to the fact that with a very heavily bleeded or blocked wastegate signal spells very very tough to control boost spiking characteristics above a certain boost level, really makes it a dangerous turbo if you don't know what's up at all times. (Say, 20-24 psi peak pressure on a 6 psi wastegate, now we're talking danger, have seen 28-29 psi spikes on my old 850).

It seems Eric that you agree with me.

Just to make sure we are all cool, I'm still a fan of the TD04HL. A 19t on a Redblock even with an M cam would spell fun and giggles like it's going out of style.

[L8 APEKS]

Yeah, like I said...it's something to think about...but there are a lot of other viable options in the $700 range, ya know? Lots of comparing to do.

What T-brickers have posted numbers with this 19T unit? Doesn't seem to be very common.

[EricF]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

What T-brickers have posted numbers with this 19T unit? Doesn't seem to be very common.

This year I'll be pushing it to its fullest capabilities on a redblock... Just wait ;)

[BDKR]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

TD04HL-13G-6cm2
360 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
324 practical max CFM

TH04HL-15G-6cm2
428 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
405 practical max CFM

TD04HL-19T-6cm2
500 max CFM @ 2.0 PR
430 practical max CFM

...from Stealth 316's site. The jump from 15G>19T is smaller than the jump from 13C>15G...it's an improvement for sure, but my only beef with the 19T is cost and availability. Very rarely do they come up for sale, and new ones are close to $1000 on eBay sometimes.

Hard to turn away a Holset that makes very similar numbers and costs $165, and is available everywhere.

+1! The bang for buck ratio here is way out of whack. If you insist on staying with a Mitsu, you would be far better off with a TD05 setup.

For half as much money as people are talking about for the 19t, I built my Cossie hotside, .70 ar T04E 46 trim turbo and I have another 70 CFM flow potential at the least and perhaps more based on using the larger compressor housing. Never mind the fact that Cossie hotside is far superior to the TD04HL wich really looks to be smaller copy of it.

[thelostartof]

Originally Posted by ZVOLV

Im hanging out with the Rice Krispy dudes Snap and Krackle around 12psi on 15g. Stock 2.4 with bigger injectors. 15g hits fuel cut too No point in going bigger unless some tuning is done. I dont want to hang out with Pop.

Then why do you not have a set of chips from me? Rumor has it the maps have been extended and the ziode is not needed untill. A higher boost pressue

[L8 APEKS]

Good stuff here.

In doing a little research, the problem of bent rods in the whiteblocks has nothing to do with the turbo being "big." Because, well, it's NOT a big turbo, at all. It's a TD04.

The problem seems to be well documented...it's Motronic 4.3's inability to regulate boost well on the 850's when using turbochargers that flow disproportionately compared to the 15G's (the 19T is just a 15G with a slightly larger 46/58mm compressor wheel).

More info here...it was covered some years ago:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/archiv...p/t-10961.html

[ZVOLV]

Originally Posted by thelostartof

Then why do you not have a set of chips from me? Rumor has it the maps have been extended and the ziode is not needed untill. A higher boost pressue

Cuz i missed your sale. I was ready to send payment, but they sold. PM me.

And Snap and Krackle are actually really cool guys. I just dont want to hang out with Pop. That guy is an *******. Koolaid man is a real ****bag.

I actually just put a turbo XS boost controller on, but left it hanging on the wastegate hose and the weight and boost pressure popped the hose off the turbo. I just left it that way because I want to be an overboosted tbricker.

[ZVOLV]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Good stuff here.

In doing a little research, the problem of bent rods in the whiteblocks has nothing to do with the turbo being "big." Because, well, it's NOT a big turbo, at all. It's a TD04.

Who cares about whiteblock benchracing? Its just ZOMG here comes 20psi in a split second!

[JW240]

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

The problem seems to be well documented...it's Motronic 4.3's inability to regulate boost well on the 850's when using turbochargers that flow disproportionately compared to the 15G's (the 19T is just a 15G with a slightly larger 46/58mm compressor wheel).

afaik M4.3 just has a fixed boost map, no feedback from a map sensor. a 19T will move more air with the same wastegate 'signal'.

[thelostartof]

Originally Posted by ZVOLV

Cuz i missed your sale. I was ready to send payment, but they sold. PM me.

And Snap and Krackle are actually really cool guys. I just dont want to hang out with Pop. That guy is an *******. Koolaid man is a real ****bag.

I actually just put a turbo XS boost controller on, but left it hanging on the wastegate hose and the weight and boost pressure popped the hose off the turbo. I just left it that way because I want to be an overboosted tbricker.

Wow lame excuse, waiting for a sale might cost you more in the long run as they might go up in price as more learn about how pimp they are

Originally Posted by ZVOLV

Who cares about whiteblock benchracing? Its just ZOMG here comes 20psi in a split second!

Pretty much, whiteblock is not needed to talk about here

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by JW240

afaik M4.3 just has a fixed boost map, no feedback from a map sensor. a 19T will move more air with the same wastegate 'signal'.

Ahhhh, makes sense now.

Of course, the ZOMG!!!! 20PSIZ!!111!!!!1! reaction is WAY more fun!

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by thelostartof

they might go up in price as more learn about how pimp they are

Please don't become the AIG of the Turbobricks world.

[dieselboy]

I like turbo lag. It's that feeling you have when you know what's coming and your passenger has no idea.

[olov]

if you want quick spool build an na motor, imo

[IceCold4x4]

The volvo td05 housing is crap. I had times almost a second faster and higher traps with my td04hl-15g. And I was running a 20g coldside that flowed about 600 + cfm

[EricF]

Since I have them side by side on the bench right now and we are covering this topic, I brought out the dial caliper to take some measurements.

Turbine outlet diameter:
Angle-outlet housing--- 2.830"
Straight-outlet housing--- 2.380"

Turbine inlet:
Angle-outlet housing--- 1.900x1.970"
Straight-outlet housing--- 1.485x1.865"

So the super amazing better-than-conical housing is still far short cross-sectionally on both inlet and outlet sides than the straight-outlet.

For the non-math types around here (myself included):

Angle-outlet has 30% more cross-sectional area at the smallest point of the outlet

Angle-outlet has 26% more cross-sectional area at the outside of the inlet... Now to be fair the straight-outlet can be ported out quite a bit, there is a "hump" on the inlet that you can grind down a bit. But it will take a lot of removed material to match the bigger inlet of the angle-outlet housing.

Both housings in question are 7cm2 in size.

I think that if you compared the conical outlet, the outlet would probably be closer to 45-50% of the outlet size of the angled housing.

[thelostartof]

Why not? They seem to have a ton of $ coming in right now.

Downpipe prices have gone up mayve $30 in the last 4 years so that kind of price hike is not to bad.
Plus we are the only ones offering the rev limiter chips along with a lot of work done on the maps. Dyno time is coming up soon for a few cars to do a bunch more fine tuning for certain setups along with back to back tests and some oddball wiring sets to do these tests properly.

Originally Posted by L8 APEKS

Please don't become the AIG of the Turbobricks world.

[thelostartof]

Eric

Remember my post, not all angled outlet hosuings are the same. There are many out there just as crappy as the straight outlet in terms of inlet size

Oh and we have 3 or so of those larger better flowing stock angled outlets here for sale if anyone is lookng for them

[L8 APEKS]

Originally Posted by thelostartof

Why not?

Because some of us realize the profit margin in the 15 minutes and the $3 in materials it takes to flash code to an e-prom.