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Old 05-16-2009, 01:29 AM   #1
beepee
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Question MS2 Wasted spark output signal

I have been working with MrBill on the 242, and we're itching to get this thing going. We are having a bit of trouble with the wasted spark however.

We've scoped the output signals from MS going to the two IN (IB1 and IB2) pins on the Hyundai ignitor (with the ignitor disconnected). We scoped using the output test mode in megatune. The dwell/interval settings were consistent with the pattern on the scope I noticed that the dwell period was only about 1 volt higher than the rest of the pattern.

Addidionally I found it odd that that with the motor stopped and the ignition on there _always_ about 9v when you meter from either of the MS trigger wires (from the D14 and D16 outputs) to the positive terminal (with the ignitor disconnected from megasquirt).

Another note: with the ignition on and the outputs attached to the ignitor, LEDs D14 and D16 are illuminated solidly. When you disconnect the ignitor, the LEDs go out. The LEDs stay illuminated during crank/test. If we disconnect the ignitor and do an output test, we get a very faint illumination from the LED. Even with the dwell and the interval set to nearly identical values the LED only illuminated dimly. (On the scope it appears that as the dwell / interval = duty cycle)

We are using MS2-extra 1.0.2, the ignition settings seem to be correct (not inverted, output pins, etc)

We have double checked grounds as well as tested the coil on another car. And we can't get this damn thing to spark....

I am thinking that something may be wrong/fried with/on either the MS mobo or the ignitor. I suspect the MS board.

What sort of voltage difference should we see in the signal? I figured it would be closer to 12v. I imagined that the ignitor expects to see at least a 5v jump before it starts it's magic, right?

I'd love to hear if anyone has had a similar issue.
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Old 05-16-2009, 07:32 PM   #2
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Here is an msq for mine. I am using MS2extra code, but I am using beta20090225. I am using a 36-1 wheel and it is nine teeth ahead at TDC.

I am using d14 and d16 for the spark outputs. They stay on whenever the key is on. The voltage is pulled low to trigger the ignitor. I think the spark outputs should only be ~5volts though, not any higher.

Here is a very good thread that helped me alot. You've probably already seen it though.
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/sh...d.php?t=110786
Attached Files
File Type: msq 5-16-09.msq (51.9 KB, 14 views)
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Old 05-16-2009, 11:23 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by wennstroma View Post
Here is an msq for mine. I am using MS2extra code, but I am using beta20090225. I am using a 36-1 wheel and it is nine teeth ahead at TDC.

I am using d14 and d16 for the spark outputs. They stay on whenever the key is on. The voltage is pulled low to trigger the ignitor. I think the spark outputs should only be ~5volts though, not any higher.

Here is a very good thread that helped me alot. You've probably already seen it though.
http://www.forums.turbobricks.com/sh...d.php?t=110786
Ok, our D14 and D16 stay on whenever the key is on as well, so it seems we got something right. That is good to know!

Yeah, I have been up and down the wasted spark write-up a few times. I swear we are doing everything right... but that is obviously not the case

Thanks for the MSQ file. Unless plans change, MrBill and I will be giving the whole setup a once over tomorrow. I'll post whatever we find.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:01 PM   #4
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Are you using the coil test mode features in MS2-extra? I found those pretty handy when i was getting mine working.

Why are you using MS2-extra 1.0 and not the 2.0 series? I suspect it should work with 1.0 as well... but the newer software has a lot of updated features and bug fixes.

Do you have a wiring diagram of what you have wired up right now? The only issue I had getting mine running was having the two coils swapped.


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Old 05-17-2009, 12:26 PM   #5
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well it may be a bigger indicator, than just spark issues. but 2.0.1 would NOT flash before.. Like it would get 40% the way through and fail.

1.0.2 doesn't fail. We may have a few reasons why it doesn't work that we've fixed, but as-of right now, no flash
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:34 AM   #6
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After scoping everything and successfully triggering the coil directly with MS (after some re-soldering), we are fairly sure we have a dud igniter. Which would mean either it was bad coming from the junkyard, or we fried it somehow.

So MrBill has ordered two BIP373s; we are going to drive the coils directly from MS. Hopefully we will get this done before he goes all /wrists on me.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:24 AM   #7
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/wrists

yeah I just got confirmation they have shipped from DIYautotune. I still sorta want to use the hyundai igniter, but triggered from the BIP373s. Not sure why, I just have that...feeling.

Either way, successful spark should occur memorial day weekend. If it occurs, a successful drive may occur soon-after.

BTW, excellent avatar.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:26 PM   #8
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well it may be a bigger indicator, than just spark issues. but 2.0.1 would NOT flash before..
I had quite a bit of trouble with the flashing before. It all came down to serial port buffering. I had to do it on a reasonably new desktop with larger UARTs and it worked fine. I never got it to work properly on my notebook that I used for tuning in the car. Their flashing routines are very sensitive to errors and/or buffer underruns...


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Old 05-18-2009, 08:44 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by arsenix View Post
I had quite a bit of trouble with the flashing before. It all came down to serial port buffering. I had to do it on a reasonably new desktop with larger UARTs and it worked fine. I never got it to work properly on my notebook that I used for tuning in the car. Their flashing routines are very sensitive to errors and/or buffer underruns...


James
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:31 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsenix View Post
I had quite a bit of trouble with the flashing before. It all came down to serial port buffering. I had to do it on a reasonably new desktop with larger UARTs and it worked fine. I never got it to work properly on my notebook that I used for tuning in the car. Their flashing routines are very sensitive to errors and/or buffer underruns...


James

On EVERY one of these machines it would flash 1.0.2 extra with no issues, but v2 would always dump out at exactly 39%.

I tried flashing with:

1. Brand new HP laptop using both DIYAutoTune adapter and a prolific PL-series adapter - tried buffer settings on both USB devices - no go.
2. Old Toshiba satellite P-166 laptop with inbuilt 16550 serial port. Tried with full FIFO buffers, and buffers disabled, no go.
3. Oddball NCS touchscreen POS terminal mounted in the wall of my garage with inbuilt serial port, no go.
4. MrBill's EEEPC with DIYAutoTune adapter - nope.

I've tried powering megasquirt from a $40 True Value battery charger, a known good battery from another car, even a fancypants variable HP bench supply. WTF?!

Tonight I am going to borrow a backhoe and check for an unmarked Indian graveyard under my garage; fairly sure I have ruled out all other possibilities.
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:36 AM   #11
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slow the connection down to 9600.
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:29 AM   #12
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/wrists

yeah I just got confirmation they have shipped from DIYautotune. I still sorta want to use the hyundai igniter, but triggered from the BIP373s. Not sure why, I just have that...feeling.

Either way, successful spark should occur memorial day weekend. If it occurs, a successful drive may occur soon-after.

BTW, excellent avatar.
Why are you going to use two different ignitors? If you modify the LED17/19 circuit (by adding a resistor) that can more than adequately trigger the hyundai ignitor... no need to complexicate it by adding a bip373... unless I'm missing something.

Mike
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:39 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by 740ATL View Post
Why are you going to use two different ignitors? If you modify the LED17/19 circuit (by adding a resistor) that can more than adequately trigger the hyundai ignitor... no need to complexicate it by adding a bip373... unless I'm missing something.

Mike
well right now, I lack the hyundai ignitor. I'm going up to crazy ray's this weekend, but lately I've had some trouble finding the little guys. Lots of the coils and ignitors are pulled, I assume from other enthusiasts, but maybe not.
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:46 AM   #14
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well right now, I lack the hyundai ignitor. I'm going up to crazy ray's this weekend, but lately I've had some trouble finding the little guys. Lots of the coils and ignitors are pulled, I assume from other enthusiasts, but maybe not.
gotcha. Carry on.
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Old 05-20-2009, 11:05 AM   #15
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slow the connection down to 9600.
not for ms2
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Old 05-22-2009, 08:58 AM   #16
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you probably already know this but don't leave power on to the ignitor for too long... ie key in 'run' position for more than 5 mins. hell, i get scared if i realize it's been on for a minute, only because i killed one by leaving it on too long. then i got distracted and left the key on again and killed another one.

just fyi.
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Old 05-22-2009, 11:44 PM   #17
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http://forums.turbobricks.com/showth...90#post2454990
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