240 Series Adjustable Torque rods:

sorry about the outburst.

i very much do still intend on making them, based upon the same design of the panhard rods (that being that they will mount directly into the stock location without any modification to the mounts)

My intentions are to use nuts from our supplier of demesions that allow us to insert them into the rods and be appropriatly welded in place, once we expand the end of the rod. this will allow use to use a heavier heim joint from aurora, which will be just as strong, but not as expensive as a similar load rated heim joint of a smaller overall size. we also intend to get either a hex collar or nut large enough to slide onto the center of the rod, and allow adjustment with a wrench. this of course is to go along with the orignal plan to have one end RH thread and the other LH thread, for easy adjustment without removal of the rods.

also if we can find a supplier for spring steal tubing, we might just use the virgin tubing over used torque rods.

Snoop Dougy Doug said:

Ash, I have indeed driven it quite a bit now. The car is MUCH more trackable, and much more predictable. Straightline I can barely chirp the tires now, it really seems to keep the tires planted.

I took justin for a nice ride, jumped on the freeway by my shop that has a nice fairly quick, flat 90* onramp. Took it in 2nd gear. Romped on it, ended up putting it into probably the most controlled drift I"ve experienced with the car. Before the car would SNAP into oversteer at will, and would ussualy just attempt to loop the car around, now its VERY predictable and VERY trackable.

I'd HIGHLY suggest these to anyone.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, I'd say that the reason for large handling difference would be that you're running a locker and I'm not
Perhaps there is some sort of factor introduced by centering the rear end within the guards too.
I might draw it all out, ie. suspension pick up points and operating angles and work at it from there. - to ease my curiosity.

I think a locker would solve the issue of frying the inside rear tyre - spectacular but certainly not fast.

Thanks again,
Ash

nohbudi said:

sorry about the outburst.

i very much do still intend on making them, based upon the same design of the panhard rods (that being that they will mount directly into the stock location without any modification to the mounts)

My intentions are to use nuts from our supplier of demesions that allow us to insert them into the rods and be appropriatly welded in place, once we expand the end of the rod. this will allow use to use a heavier heim joint from aurora, which will be just as strong, but not as expensive as a similar load rated heim joint of a smaller overall size. we also intend to get either a hex collar or nut large enough to slide onto the center of the rod, and allow adjustment with a wrench. this of course is to go along with the orignal plan to have one end RH thread and the other LH thread, for easy adjustment without removal of the rods.

also if we can find a supplier for spring steal tubing, we might just use the virgin tubing over used torque rods.

Click to expand...

If you're using heim joints at either end (possibly with L and R handed threads) you REALLY dont want to introduce another point of adjustment in the centre.

This would make getting each rod the same length VERY difficult, introduce more welding (potential for warping or distorting/weakening the material your using) and probably increase the cost of production if you're thinking of selling them.

As with anything you might make though, you need to test it all first and properly. remember that suspension component failure has potential to end in the injury of your customers or those you care about. (not even mentioning possible financial impact to yourself)

DESIGN > FABRICATE > TEST > TEST > TEST > REMOVE & INSPECT > RE FIT > TEST > TEST > REMOVE & INSPECT > FINALISE PRESENTATION (make it look pretty) > SELL

I might be telling you things you already know, if so, I apologise.

Anyway, best of luck, have fun

Ash

heh, i appreciate the suggestions, but i think you misunderstood me. im only putting the part in the middle, as a spot to put a wrench on so its easier to turn. it wont be cut at all, just a large hex nut slid over the end of the rod and welded on at the middle.

you made an excellent point about warpage, which is why if i do add that hex location, im gonna have to make certain that its welded on evenly, simply because i dont want to get anyone hurt.

Where the heck did my post go?
Anyways, I *thought* I posted saying if you have a lather you could make them form solid aluminum round stock- just drill and tap the ends however you want. You could bang 'em off in a couple minutes.

And as far as Kiri's wining goes- why don't you search "T5 adapter" and see what comes up for the earliest posts. I just bought my own idea from someone else. Such is life. You either do it or someone else does.

nohbudi said:

heh, i appreciate the suggestions, but i think you misunderstood me. im only putting the part in the middle, as a spot to put a wrench on so its easier to turn. it wont be cut at all, just a large hex nut slid over the end of the rod and welded on at the middle.

you made an excellent point about warpage, which is why if i do add that hex location, im gonna have to make certain that its welded on evenly, simply because i dont want to get anyone hurt.

Click to expand...

Ah... I see
modifications are alway never a problem on your own car, but if you're making production runs of components for sale, its always best to test a lot first.
We have some components on our 240 at the moment, that arent mentioned at all on the site, simply because we havent done nearly enough testing yet. If you get a chance, track days are ideal, as they put lots of stress on suspension components (obviously you will have done some testing beforehand) and they can be great to work out what will work and what wont.
We try to do a track day with 2 or 3 different designs of components and swap them in and out during the course of the day.
You really can learn a lot doing this, also with some of our components we get them stress tested afterwards as well.
Just some thoughts.

Kenny, Dave and I are thinking along the same lines for doing metric ones if all else fails.

You'll notice my first torque rod looks like this:


thick walled tubing, threaded. Worked fine too.

ya thought there was just buying roundstock is cheaper than tube+threaded inserts and it eliminates the welding. I'll probably try to get around to doing some this way as I've been having trouble with torque rods as well.

that 740 set up is nice.....

Yeah, I'm looking to do something of that nature... I wonder how much it will improve the traction? I'm doing it more to get my rear end all in alignment so I can figure out what is goin on.

Thats the main reason I did it (alignment) but over all it seems to have helped improve traction as well.

Can anybody comment on the amount of noise increase you get from running these very solid torque links? Would these be appropriate for a street car? With an emphasis on street. I'm tired of obnoxious and loud street cars. Had plenty of them. I like to hear my radio without cranking it to 11.

qwkswede said:

Can anybody comment on the amount of noise increase you get from running these very solid torque links? Would these be appropriate for a street car? With an emphasis on street. I'm tired of obnoxious and loud street cars. Had plenty of them. I like to hear my radio without cranking it to 11.

Click to expand...

Doug would be the best person to comment on this, but I guess NVH would increase a little, whether its noticable, Im not sure, but road noise and vibration etc might transfer more into the cabin as its not being dampened (or dampened as well) by a rubber or urethane bush.
solid mounting of anything usually results in more noise or general in-car harshness.
In the case of torque rods though, I wouldnt think that the difference would be a big one. It might not even be noticable.

Over all, I noticed no increase in noise or harshness. If you have worn trailing arm bushings, odds are you'll hear/notice them now.

I think its actually smoother. On/Off throttle transisitions are much smoother now.

240 Torque Rod update

I made my own 240 torque rods and want to illustrate how I did them....

I started by reviewing Doug's pioneering efforts above. But I noticed the problem Doug had with fitting 1/2 x 20 (standard) ROD ENDS when the existing bolts used in the 240 are 12 x 1.75mm. Also, Doug used weld-on threaded ends that he bought from a race car supply company. These threaded ends are not available in metric thread, so I decided to go with welding a nut on each end of the tube.

So I purchased 12 mm ROD ENDS from Hillco Fastener Warehouse in Garden Grove, CA (they take phone orders). I ordered the following:
(2) 12 mm Rod Ends - right hand thread (about $9 each)
(2) 12 mm Rod Ends - left hand thread
(6) 12 mm Jam Nuts - right hand thread
(6) 12 mm Jam Nuts - left hand thread
These items ran around $45 with shipping I think (can't recall exactly) and took two weeks to get.

I went with RIGHT and LEFT hand threads because I wanted these rods to be adjustable without having to remove one end.

Then I went on the hunt for some steel heavy wall tube that a Jam Nut would fit into (so it could be welded... you'll see). I located 3/4 inch ID heavy wall gas pipe and cut two 12 inch sections (See EDIT below for update after install).


My plan was for the final length of the rod to be 12 1/2 inches without the Rod Ends (according to Doug's optimum measurement). [EDIT] After installing them you might want to change that to 13.0 or 13.5 inches for more adjustment near the OEM rods. after installation of the shorter ones I found them too short, which tended to lower the pinion too much. There is not enough length to adjust up to the stock pinion angle, so I will be making 1 inch longer rods.

With the idea of welding nuts, I had some reservations about the small size of the Jam Nuts (not a lot of thread in a 1/4 inch thick nut), so my plan was to have TWO NUTS welded together. That allows for 1/2 inch of thread. If that's not enough (apparently it's not enough for some) then weld three together.


Then the welded nuts are inserted part way into the tube and welded to the end of the tube. The final length would then work out to 12 1/2 (my first try) to 13 1/2 inches (will be my next set).


This worked out very well and the semi-finished product looked like this below... (the top rod actually has the third jam nut installed and locked down)


Since I know very little about welding other than my high school metal shop experience 25 years ago, I took everything to a local muffler shop and they charged $35 to do it.
And the final painted torque rods below... waiting for installation.


Dave B.

Looks GREAT Dave!!!

looks awesome, is it ready to be compiled and published?

Another possible solution could be to buy the threaded inserts in a smaller thread size, drill them out to 12mm and tap with the proper thread pitch.

From the same site Doug sourced his parts, they sell aluminum link rods that already have threaded ends. I think they come in 1" increments, and I know I saw 12" and 13". With 5/8-18 threads, I can get a very heavy duty 1/2" bore heim joint with 5/8" thread...total cost would be $40 for the two rods, and about $32 for the two heim joints. Still doesn't solve the 1/2" vs 12mm issue.

I don't know how strong these rods really need to be, but I would probably want more thread than a 1/2" thick nut (or two jam nuts) can provide. I believe the threaded inserts have much more threading than 1/2" deep.

another case of things being hard to do in uk due to the stupid price of stuff

aurora 0.5" high stength rod end. price + VAT is ?32, so $60 for one of 4

Raven,

Get someone to buy them here, then mail them over to you. probably work out to be pretty cheap!

Jordan