BNE update: Quick Steer Roll Correction Prototype

blkaplan · 02-02-2010, 03:13 PM

This is a prototype for a product that I have been working on for a long time, it has undergone multiple design iterations and transformations. The product is called Quick Steer Roll Correction, it's purpose is to correct the front suspension geometry issues that result from lowering the car. Suspension systems have an "imaginary" point called a roll center (RC), the roll center is the point at which the cars suspension system pivots around. The location and height of the roll center is very important to how the car handles and accelerates out of corners. The height of the center of gravity (CG) of a car and the height of the roll center have a relationship that can be described as a lever arm. The longer the lever arm the more force the chassis will be subjected to while cornering. When the front of a 240 or any car is lowered the roll center moves below the ground. This increases the distance between the CG and RC, in effect it increases the lever arm length and therefor increases the amount of body roll the car is subjected to. The front suspension has a separate roll center from the rear suspension. The rear suspension in a solid axle car has a geometry where the roll center height changes very little when the car's ride height is lowered. This leaves the rear RC high and the front RC low. If one to draw a line between the two roll center heights you would see there is an angle. The angle can be described as the roll axis inclination angle. The steeper this angle the harder it is to put the power down on corner exit. There are many other things that roll center height dictates but adjusting the front RC will affect how the back of the car works as well. There is a plethora of information online and in books about this subject so I will not try and repeat what others have already done so well.

The Quick Steer Roll Correctors are unique because they have an integrated steering arm, the typical/generic approach has a been a long bolt installed with a spacer off the steering arm and a separate spacer for the ball joint bracket. This is far from ideal because you are putting a large cantilevered single shear load on the bolt that supports the tie rod / rod end and this can lead to failure. The Quick Steer Roll Correctors have integrated steering arms that are compatible with the factory tie rod ends, this means no over loading in single shear. The new steering arm also presents an opportunity to modify the steering leverage ratio. The Quick Steer Roll Correctors have multiple steering leverage ratio options, The stock ratio is available, 20%, and 40% quicker ratio option. For comparison sake, the power steering has a 3.5 lock to lock ratio stock, 20% is 2.8 and 40% is 2.1. The manual rack has a 4.34 lock to lock ratio stock, 20% is ~3.5 and 40% is ~2.6. Now these lock to lock comparisons are not technically correct because the lock of the steering rack is still the same but in my opinion it is the best way to make a comparison because people are most familiar with a lock to lock comparison then any other steering ratio.

The steering arm is removable and has a slotted adjustment, this adjustment is good for two reasons. The first is it can let you adjust and tune out any bump steer that you may have from shortening the lever ratio and secondly it lets you adjust the Ackermann angle. What does this mean for people? For most drivers it won’t mean much. If you are able to get tire slip angle and force data from the manufacturer, which is sometimes available for racing tires you can optimize the Ackermann effect and gain the maximum grip from the tires. Most people will just want to leave the Ackermann at factory angles.

The Quick Steer Roll Correctors eliminate the need to use the factory tapered ball joint receiver, The bottom of the roll correction spacer is tapered to match the stock 240 balljoint. The holes on the steering arms are also tapered to match the stock 240 tie rod ends. If someone prefers to use a rod end and bolt they can drill the tie rod holes to 14mm or what ever size rod end they want.

The dimensions of the factory spindle were carefully measured and digitized using a Coordinate Measurement Machine called a FARO arm. Collecting the data this way is very accurate and lets us nail down the factory geometry too within.001". Having good and accurate data ensures the parts dimensions and tolerances can be specified correctly. This helps to give a very high quality fit.

From the digitized geometry a Computer Aided Design (CAD) model of the factory spindle was created to design the part. From this 3-D foundation the new part was designed. The part went through several design iterations.

An early design iteration.

Testing

Rapid ABS plastic prototype to check fitment.

A few more revisions and redesigns and the design came to something like this

Rapid prototype

In order to reduce manufacturing complexity, a two part adaptation was made.

Then the parts were tested for ride and steering forces.

Finite Element Analysis (FEA) helps to maximize stiffness and strength of the part and while minimizing the weight. The FEA process also can help highlight design flaws and reduce the number of real prototypes needed.

The flange is a very tight fit to the factory spindle and the quality of this fitment ensures a good engagement with the machined large diameter arc that is on the factory spindle. By making this tolerance tight it helps to reduce torsional loads on the mounting bolts because the part can not twist without deforming the spindle

The prototypes have been machined from 4140 billet alloy steel and heat treated.

The prototype has an effective height of 1.9 inches, The production part will most likely get nickel plating but the prototypes were painted. The prototype units were installed with the “Ackermann” adjustment aligned with the stock steering hole. Bottom 12.9 grade 10mm bolts were torqued to 60Nm. I mounted some older wheels and tires (205 55 16, 16x6.5, Pilot Sport All Season which are very old and have no grip left in them). I chose the old skinny tires for a few reasons, primarily I wanted to aim for pot holes, crubs, and any other road irregularity to help test the strength of the component, and I don't care about the wheels and tires getting hurt. Secondly, the lower grip of these tires help me experience the car at the limit without going insane speeds aka jail binding speeds. The steering is set for 20% quicker then stock.

Initial thoughts:
My first impression is the car has a lot of grip for how bad the tires are, and the car seems to better planted in corners. The acceleration out of corners due to the increase in the traction is impressive especially considering the open diff that I am running. Once the car enters a power induced slide it is easily controlled and feels very good and smooth.

The steering ratio feels very nice, for 99% of driving I don't have to shuffle my hands or cross over. Driving on a curvy highway at speed requires very small movements to point the car. I am loving it. Another nice aspect is the reduced leverage ratio gives more feed back through the steering wheel. I am running power steering.

My car right now is lowered about 2 inches in the front but is on tall tires.

After doing some more durability testing and analysis I will move forward with production, if you are interested in a set let me know. Feed back in this thread will help me gauge interest and will determine the amount I will have made in the first production run. I am considering having a discounted pre-sale as well.

To summarize the product, the key features include

Billet Machined 4140 Steel Alloy, w/ heat treatment for extra strength
Utilizes factory ball joints and tie rods.
Fixes suspension geometry issues caused from lowering without adding excessive single shear loads
Adjustable Steering Ratio
CAD engineered and FEA validated design

BrickLove · 02-02-2010, 03:16 PM

That's bad ass, Ben.

sbabbs · 02-02-2010, 03:19 PM

Killer! Almost makes me want to get a 240, na... Any 740 ones in the works?

Simon

blkaplan · 02-02-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbabbs

Killer! Almost makes me want to get a 240, na... Any 740 ones in the works?

Simon

Yes, I will do a 740 version. I should be able to reuse the steering arm part

Peters been bugging me about them forever now.

Jerd · 02-02-2010, 03:23 PM

So legit, i love your stuff ben, thank you so much for providing us with it.

sdturbo · 02-02-2010, 03:24 PM

I would be interested but a price point would be the determining factor. Nice part, looks like you have some design time into them.

blkaplan · 02-02-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdturbo

I would be interested but a price point would be the determining factor. Nice part, looks like you have some design time into them.

Hah, I don't think there's any way I can ever recoup my design cost into these but I am just happy to have them at this point

I would really like to price them at 300 a set. If I could get 20 people to preorder I could probably hit that mark.

metalfloyd123 · 02-02-2010, 03:29 PM

that looks awesome! I will defiantly keep looking for more updates on this.

WeezilUSA · 02-02-2010, 03:30 PM

Son of a B my pocketbook hates the volvo right now... But that looks like a sweet product, I'd be down to preorder.

thebornotaku · 02-02-2010, 03:30 PM

Awesome. Just recently I was thinking about how there's probably no products out there to correct the increased front roll couple... it's like you're psychic.

valvesprung · 02-02-2010, 03:35 PM

So cool to see such advanced parts being built for cars with such a relatively small following (put the VW crowd to shame). Nice work Ben.

towerymt · 02-02-2010, 03:38 PM

Should be on every lowered 240.

blkaplan · 02-02-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valvesprung

So cool to see such advanced parts being built for cars with such a relatively small following (put the VW crowd to shame). Nice work Ben.

Yea tell me about it. I have a feeling these might sell well to the over seas crowd. They are light and easy to ship.

adrianpike · 02-02-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeezilUSA

Son of a B my pocketbook hates the volvo right now... But that looks like a sweet product, I'd be down to preorder.

I'm replacing my quickrack budget item with these.

DavoS40 · 02-02-2010, 03:43 PM

Sweet, I was looking over your website last night to see if you had parts yet for correcting the roll center, crazy you post this today. Definitely count me down for a set in the $300-350 range.

MrBill · 02-02-2010, 03:43 PM

WeezilUSA · 02-02-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianpike

I'm replacing my quickrack budget item with these.

I already bought my quick rack

blkaplan · 02-02-2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeezilUSA

I already bought my quick rack

Well, you can sell it or just use these and use the stock steering hole.

sdturbo · 02-02-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blkaplan

Hah, I don't think there's any way I can ever recoup my design cost into these but I am just happy to have them at this point

I would really like to price them at 300 a set. If I could get 20 people to preorder I could probably hit that mark.

At least you are realistic haha. I would be down for a set in a few months but thats my budget for dragfag tires currently.

Cameron · 02-02-2010, 04:04 PM

940 16 valve · 02-02-2010, 04:05 PM

I was looking for something like this a while ago, and finally gave up! I'd be interested if you do go on to make them for the 700/900. Looks like a sweet product!

Eli · 02-02-2010, 04:07 PM

Wow Ben. Looks like an awesome product. A great solution to an issue most of us have.

I wish I could say I'd be in for a set right now, but I am saving up money to finish my SVO conversion right. Though I should be in the market for a set sometime later this year.

Keep up the good work.

GTJordan · 02-02-2010, 04:11 PM

I'm in, but I'm out until June. Buying S60R not good on pocket book while still in school.

Jordan

drftvlvo240 · 02-02-2010, 04:32 PM

you know im on the pre-order.....im going 40% quicker + my quick rack.....my steering is gonna be so quick my hub might just sheer off from speed

blkaplan · 02-02-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drftvlvo240

you know im on the pre-order.....im going 40% quicker + my quick rack.....my steering is gonna be so quick my hub might just sheer off from speed

Danger to Manifold!

02-02-2010, 03:13 PM	#1
blkaplan 50 shades of beige Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockville, MD	BNE update: Quick Steer Roll Correction Prototype This is a prototype for a product that I have been working on for a long time, it has undergone multiple design iterations and transformations. The product is called Quick Steer Roll Correction, it's purpose is to correct the front suspension geometry issues that result from lowering the car. Suspension systems have an "imaginary" point called a roll center (RC), the roll center is the point at which the cars suspension system pivots around. The location and height of the roll center is very important to how the car handles and accelerates out of corners. The height of the center of gravity (CG) of a car and the height of the roll center have a relationship that can be described as a lever arm. The longer the lever arm the more force the chassis will be subjected to while cornering. When the front of a 240 or any car is lowered the roll center moves below the ground. This increases the distance between the CG and RC, in effect it increases the lever arm length and therefor increases the amount of body roll the car is subjected to. The front suspension has a separate roll center from the rear suspension. The rear suspension in a solid axle car has a geometry where the roll center height changes very little when the car's ride height is lowered. This leaves the rear RC high and the front RC low. If one to draw a line between the two roll center heights you would see there is an angle. The angle can be described as the roll axis inclination angle. The steeper this angle the harder it is to put the power down on corner exit. There are many other things that roll center height dictates but adjusting the front RC will affect how the back of the car works as well. There is a plethora of information online and in books about this subject so I will not try and repeat what others have already done so well. The Quick Steer Roll Correctors are unique because they have an integrated steering arm, the typical/generic approach has a been a long bolt installed with a spacer off the steering arm and a separate spacer for the ball joint bracket. This is far from ideal because you are putting a large cantilevered single shear load on the bolt that supports the tie rod / rod end and this can lead to failure. The Quick Steer Roll Correctors have integrated steering arms that are compatible with the factory tie rod ends, this means no over loading in single shear. The new steering arm also presents an opportunity to modify the steering leverage ratio. The Quick Steer Roll Correctors have multiple steering leverage ratio options, The stock ratio is available, 20%, and 40% quicker ratio option. For comparison sake, the power steering has a 3.5 lock to lock ratio stock, 20% is 2.8 and 40% is 2.1. The manual rack has a 4.34 lock to lock ratio stock, 20% is ~3.5 and 40% is ~2.6. Now these lock to lock comparisons are not technically correct because the lock of the steering rack is still the same but in my opinion it is the best way to make a comparison because people are most familiar with a lock to lock comparison then any other steering ratio. The steering arm is removable and has a slotted adjustment, this adjustment is good for two reasons. The first is it can let you adjust and tune out any bump steer that you may have from shortening the lever ratio and secondly it lets you adjust the Ackermann angle. What does this mean for people? For most drivers it won’t mean much. If you are able to get tire slip angle and force data from the manufacturer, which is sometimes available for racing tires you can optimize the Ackermann effect and gain the maximum grip from the tires. Most people will just want to leave the Ackermann at factory angles. The Quick Steer Roll Correctors eliminate the need to use the factory tapered ball joint receiver, The bottom of the roll correction spacer is tapered to match the stock 240 balljoint. The holes on the steering arms are also tapered to match the stock 240 tie rod ends. If someone prefers to use a rod end and bolt they can drill the tie rod holes to 14mm or what ever size rod end they want. The dimensions of the factory spindle were carefully measured and digitized using a Coordinate Measurement Machine called a FARO arm. Collecting the data this way is very accurate and lets us nail down the factory geometry too within.001". Having good and accurate data ensures the parts dimensions and tolerances can be specified correctly. This helps to give a very high quality fit. From the digitized geometry a Computer Aided Design (CAD) model of the factory spindle was created to design the part. From this 3-D foundation the new part was designed. The part went through several design iterations. An early design iteration. Testing Rapid ABS plastic prototype to check fitment. A few more revisions and redesigns and the design came to something like this Rapid prototype In order to reduce manufacturing complexity, a two part adaptation was made. Then the parts were tested for ride and steering forces. Finite Element Analysis (FEA) helps to maximize stiffness and strength of the part and while minimizing the weight. The FEA process also can help highlight design flaws and reduce the number of real prototypes needed. The flange is a very tight fit to the factory spindle and the quality of this fitment ensures a good engagement with the machined large diameter arc that is on the factory spindle. By making this tolerance tight it helps to reduce torsional loads on the mounting bolts because the part can not twist without deforming the spindle The prototypes have been machined from 4140 billet alloy steel and heat treated. The prototype has an effective height of 1.9 inches, The production part will most likely get nickel plating but the prototypes were painted. The prototype units were installed with the “Ackermann” adjustment aligned with the stock steering hole. Bottom 12.9 grade 10mm bolts were torqued to 60Nm. I mounted some older wheels and tires (205 55 16, 16x6.5, Pilot Sport All Season which are very old and have no grip left in them). I chose the old skinny tires for a few reasons, primarily I wanted to aim for pot holes, crubs, and any other road irregularity to help test the strength of the component, and I don't care about the wheels and tires getting hurt. Secondly, the lower grip of these tires help me experience the car at the limit without going insane speeds aka jail binding speeds. The steering is set for 20% quicker then stock. Initial thoughts: My first impression is the car has a lot of grip for how bad the tires are, and the car seems to better planted in corners. The acceleration out of corners due to the increase in the traction is impressive especially considering the open diff that I am running. Once the car enters a power induced slide it is easily controlled and feels very good and smooth. The steering ratio feels very nice, for 99% of driving I don't have to shuffle my hands or cross over. Driving on a curvy highway at speed requires very small movements to point the car. I am loving it. Another nice aspect is the reduced leverage ratio gives more feed back through the steering wheel. I am running power steering. My car right now is lowered about 2 inches in the front but is on tall tires. After doing some more durability testing and analysis I will move forward with production, if you are interested in a set let me know. Feed back in this thread will help me gauge interest and will determine the amount I will have made in the first production run. I am considering having a discounted pre-sale as well. To summarize the product, the key features include Billet Machined 4140 Steel Alloy, w/ heat treatment for extra strength Utilizes factory ball joints and tie rods. Fixes suspension geometry issues caused from lowering without adding excessive single shear loads Adjustable Steering Ratio CAD engineered and FEA validated design __________________ www.BEIGEPOWER.com Kaplhenke Racing Facebook

02-02-2010, 03:19 PM	#3
sbabbs Board Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rushing Lane, Scappoose, OR	Killer! Almost makes me want to get a 240, na... Any 740 ones in the works? Simon __________________ 1977 242 16v AQ171C M47 1984 245 D24 M46 ARP 11mm head studs Metal headgasket Biodiesel grown by Oregon farmers. 1990 745 B230FT M46 13c A-cam 3.31 528K MILES. 1991 744 RSI rods pistons Penta 2.5L steel crank 16v PZ cams Holset HC1 Getrag no sunroof no ABS 1041K 3.31 Aluminum hood 80's bumpers E85 quartermaster 7.25 twin disc MS3X-email tune from a reputable emailer. 1991 740SE B230FT motor blew...

02-02-2010, 03:23 PM	#5
Jerd Board Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Vancouver WA	So legit, i love your stuff ben, thank you so much for providing us with it. __________________

02-02-2010, 03:24 PM	#6
sdturbo Board Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Diego CA	I would be interested but a price point would be the determining factor. Nice part, looks like you have some design time into them. __________________ Josh 92 245 (TDI diesel powered.) 84 242 (16vT beater/track slut)397whp/11.6@118mph Sold 97 Land Rover Discovery (Volvo D24T swap) 65 Mini Cooper (B16 powered) www.yoshifab.com Volvo performance parts. (760)468-7002

02-02-2010, 03:29 PM	#8
metalfloyd123 Board Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Winston Salem, NC	that looks awesome! I will defiantly keep looking for more updates on this. __________________ -'83 242 Flathood Project Thread. Thanks to Accu-Wrench for their work. -'02 Subaru WRX -Daily Driver, Stage 2

02-02-2010, 03:30 PM	#9
WeezilUSA Fair Enough... Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Vancouver WA	Son of a B my pocketbook hates the volvo right now... But that looks like a sweet product, I'd be down to preorder. __________________ R-Sport International Customer Service For all RSI related messages, please email me (no PM)... Thanks! ben@r-sport.org

02-02-2010, 03:30 PM	#10
thebornotaku i turn wrenches Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Rohnert Park, CA	Awesome. Just recently I was thinking about how there's probably no products out there to correct the increased front roll couple... it's like you're psychic. __________________ 1985 245DL "The Battlewagon" - 1974 Volkswagen Super Beetle "Diego"

02-02-2010, 03:35 PM	#11
valvesprung Board Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PacNW	So cool to see such advanced parts being built for cars with such a relatively small following (put the VW crowd to shame). Nice work Ben. __________________ Jordan Green HM Motorsports '00 Audi S4 mine '98 XC70 wifey ride

02-02-2010, 03:38 PM	#12
towerymt the real Towery Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: VA, USA	Should be on every lowered 240.

02-02-2010, 03:43 PM	#15
DavoS40 Board Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO	Sweet, I was looking over your website last night to see if you had parts yet for correcting the roll center, crazy you post this today. Definitely count me down for a set in the $300-350 range. __________________ 1983 242 Turbo w/ 300+, ~~2000 S40~~, 2011 WRX

02-02-2010, 04:04 PM	#20
Cameron ドクターマリオ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Crawling around under the car	In! __________________ Cameron Daline www.ipdusa.com cameron@ipdusa.com

02-02-2010, 04:05 PM	#21
940 16 valve Board Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Calgary, Canada	I was looking for something like this a while ago, and finally gave up! I'd be interested if you do go on to make them for the 700/900. Looks like a sweet product!

02-02-2010, 04:11 PM	#23
GTJordan Been here for too long Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edmonton AB	I'm in, but I'm out until June. Buying S60R not good on pocket book while still in school. Jordan __________________ White 242GT, Sparco, TruTrack, Coilovers, Bilstein, poly, B23E, craving boost strut braces, RSI NA cam, Stahl Header, Cleaned up 405 head, Group-A wing And MS+S V3 MS2 w/Extra ---------sold 04 S60R-sold 06 XC90 09 ktm xc450 08 can-am ds450 2002 Ford F350 7.3T!

02-02-2010, 04:32 PM	#24
drftvlvo240 Board Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: long island	you know im on the pre-order.....im going 40% quicker + my quick rack.....my steering is gonna be so quick my hub might just sheer off from speed __________________ 90 244 b230ft = hawtness 06 sentra SER spec-v=Sold :( 2010 jeep grand cherokee w/ hemi powa!!!!=Daily

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