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Old 06-15-2004, 01:53 PM   #1
Mapleleafer
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Question IPD turbo cam versus VX

I'm not sure if this was covered in a previous thread...

Does anybody here have personal experience with both the "VX" and IPD's new turbo cam in a B230FT?

I've seen the info for the VX in the non-forced engine but my cars have turbos. What I really want to know is how the IPD turbo cam compares the the VX; torque peak, high-end breathing, gas mileage (compared to the factory "T" cam), and problems with emission testing.

The increased overlap (IPD turbo; 32° vs. VX; 18.5° vs. T; 3°) seems wrong for use with forced induction but maybe Volvo did not size the turbo too small. I am using a Garrett T3 in factory trim, not the small Mitsubishi TD04. I'd be going directly from a "T" cam to one of these on a fresh engine.

I'd also like to know whether the IPD cam runs better with a few degrees advance, like they recommend for the VX, or on the zero mark.
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:48 PM   #2
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Default It has been covered.

In my opinion these are two different types of cams. The VX is a factory cam to give you good driveability and mileage with some good performance. The IPD turbo cam and the enem V15
are both designed for the next level of sporting performance. Still very driveable but giving you
even more midrange and topend power while still not taking away too much low rpm torque.
In my experience with some engine mods like an exhaust and some intake restrictions improved
the V15 has a wide and nice driving powerband. I can loaf along at 2k but if I want to run
steady at 4k or even 5k rpms it doesn't feel like the motor is fighting itself anymore for high rpm
output.

The overlap is still very conservative and is OK to use with a turbo. The enem turbo V15 uses
a 112 degree lobe angle. Naturally aspirated V15 cam uses 109 degree lobe angle. The IPD
cam uses 110 degree lobe angle. Since it's in between it's probably really nice to use both
with a turbo or naturally aspirated.
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:58 PM   #3
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Default cammin'

I did quite a bit of testing before we brought out the Turbo Cam. I tested the K cam, H cam, A cam, B cam, VX cam, and of course the T cam. The K, H and A cams were all pretty high end cams, horrible low end power. For the street, they are not much fun at all. The B cam was a little better, but really lopy at idle, and mostly high end only. The VX does loose a bit of low end, has great mid range, and decent top end power. The Turbo cam also looses a bit of low end compared to the T, but the mid range is great, and top end is on par with the K cam. I have found, at least on the B21FT, that advancing a few degrees works really well to give a bit more low end power, without a real noticable loss of top end. I passed through DEQ (emissions) Testing the very first time with the Turbo cam, not a single problem. VX cam took me 3 times to get through. I had a hard time getting through with A, B and H cams. As far as overlap is concerned, the idea of 0 overlap is to get really low emissions, because you are not blowing any air/fuel out the exhaust valve when boosting. With the Turbo cam, the extra overlap actually helps the turbo spool up a hair quicker, and hasn't negatively effected emissions. As far as mileage, I would not be the person to ask about that, as I am running lots o' boost, and an extra fuel injector, so I go through some fuel!

So, from my experience, if you are driving your turbo car as a daily driver, and do NOT spend MOST of your time on the freeway above 5000 rpm, then the Turbo cam is the best choice, especially for the money. If you are cruising the freeways most of your time, and love wrapping out the tach, then you might look at the K or H cams, they are quite fun.

my $.023

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Old 06-15-2004, 07:41 PM   #4
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good post there, I am running the vx cam right now at 5 degrees advanced. Unfortunatly I have just failed the NJ emmissions test. Does how much the cam timing is advanced effect emissions? I realy need to get this car through and I don't know what to do. Back to the thread at hand. I have only compared my vx to my mom's stock 940 with a t cam. I never realized how much low end I lost. Mind you I love thoe cam for it's mid to top end and would never go back but still.... From what I have read the turbo cam is the way to go, I know I would trade my vx for one in a second.
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:49 PM   #5
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Wouldnt overlap at idle (vacuum) actually cause an EGR effect? Thus REDUCING emissions?
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:57 PM   #6
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Default IPD turbo cam versus VX

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey930
good post there, I am running the vx cam right now at 5 degrees advanced. Unfortunatly I have just failed the NJ emmissions test.
Whatever, it ain't the cam.
My '87 740T recently passed California smog II by a wide margin with an ipd VX cam advanced 6 degrees.
I have been running water injection, so there's NO gunk in the throttle body or combustion chambers.
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Old 06-15-2004, 11:25 PM   #7
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Good wright up that info helps me out a lot.
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Old 06-16-2004, 01:10 AM   #8
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I've run both. To be honest, I expected more converting from vx to IPD turbo cam. I noticed smoother idle, smoother and faster reving, and a little bit more power. It didnt add as much power as I thought it would. I run it 4 deg retarded and it is almost scary how fast it is on the freeway with the open 3 inch exhaust and 16g @13psi. I am kinda bummed that IPD supposedly made it more mild than the phase one. However, for 190$ it is hard to complain.
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Old 06-16-2004, 06:54 PM   #9
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Default Perspective

I think if you ran the VX and then the V15 or IPD cam you wouldn't notice a lot of difference. You shouldn't. Because the VX is a factory higher output cam but not a street performance cam. The V15 and IPD turbo cam are first level performance cams. Thus Unitek calling the equivalent cam a Phase One. So the difference between them isn't that great but I'd still
prefer the first level performance cam over that factory one. A V15 turbo sure woke up my motor with all positive and no negative affects other than how much more fun it is to press harder and burn more hydrocarbons.
Best regards,
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Old 06-16-2004, 07:47 PM   #10
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any one try running the vx with a slightly colser gap on the shimms? i think mine is 3 or 4 100ths closer. the mid and top end gains were healthy, a bit more low end loss tho. im running it advanced 4 deg. i have to run it up mabe 300 rpm higher than i did with the factory gap before i shift, but its not that bad.
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Old 06-17-2004, 02:26 AM   #11
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"Wouldnt overlap at idle (vacuum) actually cause an EGR effect? Thus REDUCING emissions?"

:?: Overlap at idle causes unburnt mixture to escape during the exhaust scavenge which as we all know increases hydrocarbons.
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:35 PM   #12
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Is it alright to run the IPD Turbo Cam with the stock valvesprings, my car has 188,XXX miles on it.
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapleleafer
Does anybody here have personal experience with both the "VX" and IPD's new turbo cam in a B230FT?
I do.

The VX is a stock grind, better mid range, quits ~5500 RPM; passed CA smog II no sweat. I think I'll put it in the wifes 765T.

Turbo has a lot less bottom, pulls easily to 6200; lots healthier at top end. Really benefits from a less restrictive exhaust system, all the bottom comes back. Haven't been to smog yet, but the WB O2 says I should be OK. Lots 'o fun on the track.
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:48 PM   #14
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Isn't there a stock fuel cut at 6000rpm?
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Old 03-13-2006, 09:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 760 Sleeper
Is it alright to run the IPD Turbo Cam with the stock valvesprings, my car has 188,XXX miles on it.
yes it is many people are running these cams with out it, and if you needed it ipd would note it in the catalouge or online.
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Old 03-13-2006, 10:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 760 Sleeper
Is it alright to run the IPD Turbo Cam with the stock valvesprings, my car has 188,XXX miles on it.
I believe stock springs are fine. But with 188,000 miles you may want to get a new set. I broke a valve spring within 2000 miles of installing the IPD turbo cam. The cylinder head had been rebuilt 50,000 miles before but I don't think the springs had been replaced. The broken spring probably had well over 200,000 miles with the lower lift T cam.
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:16 AM   #17
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Couldn't somebody just buy a cam gear and advance it a ton to get low end or retard it for high rpm power?
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 760 Sleeper
Couldn't somebody just buy a cam gear and advance it a ton to get low end or retard it for high rpm power?
if they could and it worked they would. but you get the best of both worlds if you have both.
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:28 AM   #19
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hated the vx, probably the worst investment i've ever made in my car; the turbo cam worked well until it stopped.
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:43 AM   #20
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The first upgrade cam I got was the vx. I immediatelly noticed improved mid and top end but serious low end hit and a very 'peaky' fell right at around 4100. I wouldn't recomend this cam. After a while I upgraded to the ipd TP cam top end was improved more, but it was definitely lacking on the low end although not quite as bad as the vx and it pulls all the way to redline unlike vx which gives up right before . I don't necessarily think its all the the fault of the cams though. I just recently installed megasquirt (still tuning the fuel maps and running a somewhat mild spark map). I have noticed an improvement in low end response. My theory is that the spark maps in EZK are optimized for the T cam which is torquey, generaly less timing is allowable at the torque peak of the cam due to the higher VE at that area of the rev range. So I think LH/EZK newters the he low end response of these cams (especially the TP cam) with not enough ignition timing.
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Old 03-14-2006, 01:43 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick211
I did quite a bit of testing before we brought out the Turbo Cam. I tested the K cam, H cam, A cam, B cam, VX cam, and of course the T cam. The K, H and A cams were all pretty high end cams, horrible low end power. For the street, they are not much fun at all.
I think the A is actually pretty mild. It has more top end and less low end than the T, but I wouldn't call the low end power horrible or unstreetable.
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoSpeed740ti
My theory is that the spark maps in EZK are optimized for the T cam which is torquey, generaly less timing is allowable at the torque peak of the cam due to the higher VE at that area of the rev range. So I think LH/EZK newters the he low end response of these cams (especially the TP cam) with not enough ignition timing.
This is a good point. I'm not sure how valid it is with the various LH systems since they "adjust" somewhat, but the base maps are probably programmed with the cam in mind. There's a reason Volvo put a different distributor # (and curve) on just about every engine model- to optimize ignition for that particular engine. If it has a different CR, manifold, k-jet or carb, CAMSHAFT, it has a different spark advance curve.

Thats why blanket statements about cams are hard to make- it all depends what other mods you've done to support the cam. I really didn't like the K-cam much either, too much low end loss, but as soon as I put in a distributor from a k-cam'd car, I gained back HEAPS of low end torque. Still not enough for my liking, and I had to bump up my octane, but you get the point...
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:32 PM   #23
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ok, sorta on topic, maybe a little off topic...
does anyone remember a company that made a cam gear that started off being advanced by a few degrees, as RPMs would rise, the cam gear would move a little and retard the cam... it was reasonably adjustable... spring-ladden oddity, it was...
i had one on a Renalt... actually was pretty slick... i was sitting and thinking the other day about an IPD Turbo cam, and wondered what the hell happened to that company that made the self-adjusting cam wheel???
it had some obvious problems (cam would retard at different rates, depending on the temp of the cam wheel)... but the idea was pretty slick
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhallilama
ok, sorta on topic, maybe a little off topic...
does anyone remember a company that made a cam gear that started off being advanced by a few degrees, as RPMs would rise, the cam gear would move a little and retard the cam... it was reasonably adjustable... spring-ladden oddity, it was...
i had one on a Renalt... actually was pretty slick... i was sitting and thinking the other day about an IPD Turbo cam, and wondered what the hell happened to that company that made the self-adjusting cam wheel???
it had some obvious problems (cam would retard at different rates, depending on the temp of the cam wheel)... but the idea was pretty slick
I would also like to know more about such a cam gear.

That would be very interesting to try.
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Old 03-14-2006, 12:51 PM   #25
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It was a company, or there was one, that did stuff for vw's. I remember someone a few years back contacted them about doing a batch of volvo gears, but nothing came out of it, or it was going to be like $300 a pop or something. I think the price wasn't bad considering the potential performance gain, but there was some question about durability of the moving parts.

try searching vw, adjustable cam gear, stuff like that. They're test vehicle was a ~80 gti that dropped something like 2 seconds in the quarter just from their gear apparently....
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