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Old 11-11-2010, 07:25 PM   #1
TestPoint
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Default Volvo 245 Ford 302 Drive Shaft

I am getting to the point of the conversion of having a Volvo/Ford drive shaft made. Searches produce both a single piece and a two piece solution. Is there a consensus on the best route? If no consensus what are the pluses and minuses of one vs two?
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:33 PM   #2
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What trans?

If you are running a standard AOD or T-5 you can use a Fox Mustang driveshaft and an adapter from Yoshifab. Their site is down for maintenance right now but you can pm Josh, he's sdturbo on here.

One piece is the way I am going for weight, simplicity and lower rotating mass as well as avoiding custom parts in the event of breakage.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:37 PM   #3
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Sorry, the transmission is an auto, 4R70W.
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Old 11-11-2010, 07:40 PM   #4
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You might be able to use the Fox shaft with the yoke off the shaft from the 4r70, or it might be the same spline. The length might be off a bit too.

For something like that if you don't have the ability to try different parts then just have a one-piece made by a good shop.
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:00 PM   #5
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Got a drive line shop lined up. They say they can do it either way.
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:09 PM   #6
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Some simple calcs (google is your friend) can help you determine based on rpm and torque output what size tubing you need to handle the engine output. If the engine is going to remain basically stock (200-250HP/300 lb-ft) then you're probably safe having the front shaft modified to mate up with your tranny and use the 2-piece set up. If you're going to mod things and start to tax the shaft more - you may want to do some calcs to see where the limits of the stock 2-piece are. My guess there are plenty of folks on this site that can chime in and tell you their experiences with higher outputs and various driveshaft options-so here's another bump.

Mine uses a 1-piece 2.75" OD steel shaft. If your car is lowered, be careful about interference under compression on the passenger's side of the car about 2/3 of the way back. The rearend center section is offset slightly to the passenger's side. Standard height this shouldn't be an issue. When we narrowed the 8.8" rearend for mine, we moved the center section about 3/8" to the driver's side to better center the driveshaft. I'm about to upgrade to a 3" aluminum one-piece.

Lots of driveshaft shops out there that can take care of this and ship it to you -- for a small fee. The Driveshaft Shop in Salisbury, NC does great work.

This for others following along Tom as you've heard it from me already...
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:15 PM   #7
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Got a shop within driving distance and they say they can do it while I wait. I am leaning toward the single shaft just because I never liked the center bearing mounting. No 'hot rod' plans. Moving from 83 to 240hp is probably going to be enough for me.
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Old 11-11-2010, 08:51 PM   #8
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Should work fine...
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TestPoint View Post
Got a shop within driving distance and they say they can do it while I wait. I am leaning toward the single shaft just because I never liked the center bearing mounting. No 'hot rod' plans. Moving from 83 to 240hp is probably going to be enough for me.
The one piece is what you want. The center support sucks up power in a few ways and costs more to maintain. Just make sure that you don't have a seatbelt bolt interference problem. If they are going to hit just grind them off.





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Old 01-13-2011, 04:08 PM   #10
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Had the Explorer shaft cut to length and a NEAPCO 2 2 329 flange welded on the back end. That matches the Volvo rear end flange.

The problem now is that the spline yoke is too big to fit into the drive line tunnel. It was about 5 1/3" with the harmonic balancer, 4 1/2" after I cut the outer ring off. Still too big. Needs to be the 3 1/2" diameter of the 1310 spline yoke, or smaller. There is a conversion u-joint that will connect the 1310 spline yoke to the 4 1/2" 1330 weld yoke to avoid replacing both. That leaves the unknown issue of will the 4 1/2" weld yoke fit further back. The 3 1/2" is still going to require some clearancing but that will be between the seats and certainly not noticeable.

All that make sense?

Lowering the transmission moves the angle difference between the transmission and rear end beyond u-joint capability.

Anyone been here, solved that?
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:24 PM   #11
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I had a custom driveshaft made to go between the T5 trans and Volvo rear axle. $280, 2 days.


Main issues with the larger diameter shaft are clearance related. Had to trim the front seatbelt bolts where they protruded into the tunnel. And had to 'adjust' the very rear end of the trans tunnel - the pinion is slightly off center and rubbed the right side of the back edge of the tunnel.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:25 PM   #12
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I would just reshape the tunel where you get the interference. i.e. beat it with a hammer!
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My knob has a big chunk of steel on it
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:29 PM   #13
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"That leaves the unknown issue of will the 4 1/2" weld yoke fit further back." Can you provide more detail on this Tom? Does 'further back' mean at the rear end? Probably not -- all kinds of room back there. Also - I think the rotating diameter of the 1330 unit is more like 3.9"-4.0" rather than 4.5". Not sure if that makes a difference or not.

Do you have a picture? Mine isn't even close to not clearing -- I'm having a hard time imagining where the clearance issues are.

Oh - I think you know already. Especially in a non-lowered car - if I were building one now - I'd go 3.0" OD aluminum with 1330 ujoints on both ends.
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Old 01-13-2011, 04:31 PM   #14
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John - what diameter is that? Looks a lot like mine -- which is 2.75" OD steel. $140 for mine at a (then) local truck shop. 'Course, that was about 10 years ago...
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Old 01-13-2011, 07:48 PM   #15
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JohnMc,

I notice you have a T5 transmission. I am using a 4R70W which is much longer and puts the u-joint just at the place where the shaft tunnel narrows to its smallest diameter. If I am going to use the single shaft solution it appears that I will have to use a 1310 slip/weld joint and beat the clearance needed.
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:04 PM   #16
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Just thinking here. If a Mustang yoke fits. AOD. A Lincoln ot T-Bird should also right?
If it needs modded I'm thinking a longer one should be o.k.?
Not too many Stangs in my local yards but T-bird are plenty.
In the Seattle/Tacoma area the quotes I'm getting are around $400.00 Hoping to find a cheaper way.
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:50 PM   #17
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I'm still likely go one piece however some have used the 2 piece and has anyone had problems in doing so? I understand its not designed for more HP/TQ. I suspect the center bearing being the weak link or is it the driveshaft diameter?
Is it at all reasonable to upgrade the 2 piece shaft?
Just thinking.
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:21 PM   #18
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I'm attempting 2pc with my 4cyl turbo, hoping to run at about 300hp/trq. I don't have enough miles on it yet to know if I'll have issues with power, but so far so good (installed last summer). I put a new center bearing and rubber donut support on it when I installed the modified M47 2pc shaft and it's working now with the T5 trans. Only vibration issue I have is off-throttle decel, and I think that's more an issue with the rear suspension height (low) and torque rod length (too short I think). Could be in the trans a little too, but I haven't chased it down yet and I don't drive the car much in the winter. A few pictures here: http://www.pbase.com/towerymt/240&page=28
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:25 PM   #19
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My brother has a 92 940 with a Mountaineer 5.0L/AOD-E tranny. They modified the front shaft of the two piece. Has held up perfectly for 6 years or so....
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:32 PM   #20
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I have spent more time resolving the drive shaft issue than any other on this conversion. The following is part of the documentation that I am developing for my great American novel, Volvo's That Run.

I would appreciate any edits or corrections comments that you may have. The intent is to have the narrative inter disbursed with pictures but I haven't paid to do that on this forum, but will.

Chapter 10: Drive shaft

First, the Explorer drive shaft will not work. The Explorer slip yoke is entirely too large to fit into the limited space of the Volvo drive tunnel, as is the 3.5” drive tube. A 2-3-4871X ($80) or an equivalent wreaking yard ’86 – ’93 Mustang/Cougar 3.8L V6 slip yoke ($20) is needed. The Mustang drive shaft comes with a 2.75” tube which further addresses the clearance issues.

Conversion to the smaller slip yoke invokes another issue. The 2-3-4871X or Mustang slip yoke barrel is 1.5” in diameter while the 4R70W housing has an oil seal and bushing for a 1.6” barrel.

The Explorer 1.6” barrel slip yoke, which used a 1330, 4.5” u-joint was never made with a yoke for the smaller, 3.5” 1310 u-joint. Actually, the previous dimensions refer to the rotating diameter of the respective u-joint yokes, not the actual u-joint dimension. All of the Ford output shafts share the same 28-spline profile and therefore earlier AOD-style extension housing, with the 1.5” seal and bushing can easily be bolted onto a 4R70W. Both the 4R70W and AOD were manufactured with ‘standard’ and ‘long’ versions of the extension housing. The standard housing length is approximately 10.5” and the long version 11.5” long. Since you are not replacing the output shaft it would probably be best to replace with like length housings.

All that means that moving to the smaller slip yoke requires that the transmission extension housing needs to be changed to an AOD housing with the 1.5” bushing and seal. I found one at a local transmission shop for $15 and they installed a new bushing and seal for $10 more.

Both one tube and two tube drive shafts have been produced by various swappers. After you have addressed the above slip yoke issues, which apply to all the subsequent decisions, modifying the Volvo drive shaft is the simpler path as you only have to add the Ford slip yoke, an appropriate 1310 u-joint weld yoke and cut the tube to length. In order to measure the correct length you will need to install the shaft to the rear end flange and center bearing ring support and the Ford slip yoke. The slip yoke should be pushed to the end of its travel and then withdrawn 1 inch. Measure from the center of the front-center Volvo u-joint hub to the center of the slip yoke u-joint hub. Take that dimension, the Volvo drive shaft, a 2-3-4871X slip yoke or the wreaking yard Mustang yoke, the weld yoke and a new 1310 u-joint to a drive line shop for a functional drive shaft. This can be done for about $125 parts and labor using the used Mustang yoke.

If you choose the one tube solution you have another level of decision. You can have a full custom shaft made for about $300 or you can search your local wreaking yard for an appropriate used Mustang shaft and modify it for about $100. Once you get the engine/transmission mounted it is as simple as measuring the distance from the center of the flange yoke u-joint to the center of the slip yoke u-joint hub. Again, the slip yoke should be fully inserted and then withdrawn about 1” for this measurement.

If you choose to build a new shaft here are the parts needed:
Slip Yoke - 2-3-4871X
U-joint - 1310
Weld Yoke - 2-28-437 (0.083" tube wall thickness)
3" torque tube
Weld Yoke - 2-28-437 (0.083" tube wall thickness)
U-joint - 1310
Flange Yoke - 2-3-329

The 3” tube is about as big as will fit without potential interference in the tunnel.

If you would choose to do a complete aluminum drive shaft you are on your own to convert the above part numbers to aluminum.

I chose the one piece route with a new rear flange yoke 2-3-329 that matched the Volvo differential flange and using the Mustang drive shaft from a local wreaking yard. The Mustang/Cougar slip yoke has a harmonic ring that also will need to be cut off. That is a 2 minute effort with an air driven cutoff tool.

Universal joints are specifically designed to adjust for alignment issues and at 0 degrees the shaft can set up harmonic vibrations. My vertical drive shaft angle was 4 degrees as initially installed and I left it at that. You should evaluate the horizontal alignment also in calculating the total angle. Total shaft angle should be no larger than 7 degrees. Washers between the mount and the transmission housing provide an opportunity to raise the transmission for adjustment of the drive shaft angle. You can lower the transmission by using washers between the frame mounting holes and the transmission cross member.

I found a magnetically attached angle gauge in the Home Depot tool department for $9. Adjust the angle with washers between the transmission cross member and the frame or between the transmission mount and the transmission with the car sitting on the suspension as it would be on the road. That is another reason to do all the suspension work before the engine/transmission conversion.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:26 PM   #21
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I've tried both the 1 and 2 piece shafts (5.0L AOD). With the 2 piece I had U joint problems (lack of needle bearing rotation created grooves in the cross shafts). This was caused by having no angle between the trans output and the center support bearing.
After several U joint changes I got a one piece, dual cardan shaft from a Lincoln LSC, Had it shortened & balanced and have been able to ignore the drive shaft since then.
The dual cardan compensates for any misalignment, it is heavier than an aluminum shaft, but smaller diameter.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:57 PM   #22
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Wow! After I invested all that time . . .

Lincoln LSC? Did that come with a CV joint in the drive shaft? Got pictures?

Last edited by TestPoint; 01-27-2011 at 10:05 PM..
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:21 PM   #23
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...I inherited the double cardan joint with the driveshaft I got when I picked up my Lincoln 8.8" rearend. Threw the joint away.....ugh.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:31 PM   #24
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I did a short write up on brickboard when I had it made, Heres the link:

http://www.brickboard.com/V8/index.h...873&show_all=1

Theres a lot of good info in the V8 forum, it's a little slow right now, but some searching will yield lots of good info.
Good luck with the project.
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Old 01-28-2011, 12:23 AM   #25
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Year range on the Lincoln? Or the year you used? Sorry if I'm being a doof here, does the dual cardon go at the rear? Or front and rear. Just trying to picture the whole shaft.

thanks!
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