Power to coil but no spark

[J_Jones]

MS1 V3. 029y4 Configured to fire the coil via this thread: http://www.turbobricks.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=90691.

I have power to coil, rpm signal to ecu, and I can see Led18 flashing when set to "irq trigger". Is there some way to test pin 36 to see if it triggering the coil? Any other ideas?

Edit: Dwell is set to the manual specs of 6.0ms cranking, 3.5ms running, 0.1ms minimum discharge period. Spark Output inverted and LED17 is SparkA

I attached my msq

[J_Jones]

I just doubled checked the wiring on the board and it's all right. My problem has got to be a setting somewhere..

[linuxman51]

what igniter do you have? you have to have an ignition module on board, and it has to be jumpered for use, in order to directly drive a coil off of pin 36

[J_Jones]

Everything is set up as this says: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/...htm#singlecoil
VB921ZVFI Ignitor at q16. I can see the circuit on the board and the left leg of the ignitor goes to the top of r26 with a 330 resister in between. middle leg goes to igbtout which is then jumpered to ign. right leg goes to r43 with a .01 link. That all seems right. I also have tachselect connected to xg1 and optoin going to s12c with a 1k resister in between as said in the directions in the mentioned thread.

[J_Jones]

Going to test the hall sensor in the morning just to make sure it specs out. (testing using this site: http://www.swedishbricks.net/700900F...20RPM%20Sensor)

Also going to test out the coil to make sure it's good, going to have to dig up the resistance numbers in the morning.. If I can rule out those two it all comes down to something wrong with MS.

[linuxman51]

turn the cranking dwell down a bit, and turn the running dwell down to like 3.3. if you're not careful, the vb921 will flake out, they're not a very robust igniter.

if everything is set up correctly in the MS, you should get a spark event approximately every time you get a trigger event in distributor mode.


*looking at msq:

Your trigger angle should be around 60 if everything else is mechanically correct, are you sure you're getting spark or is the car simply not running?

edit-
try the msq I attached, but verify that the indexes for the fuel map are correct... the ones in the msq you posted were WAY wacked out when I opened it.

[J_Jones]

Originally Posted by linuxman51

turn the cranking dwell down a bit, and turn the running dwell down to like 3.3. if you're not careful, the vb921 will flake out, they're not a very robust igniter.

if everything is set up correctly in the MS, you should get a spark event approximately every time you get a trigger event in distributor mode.


*looking at msq:

Your trigger angle should be around 60 if everything else is mechanically correct, are you sure you're getting spark or is the car simply not running?

edit-
try the msq I attached, but verify that the indexes for the fuel map are correct... the ones in the msq you posted were WAY wacked out when I opened it.

Thank you Kenny I'm definitely not getting spark. There is 12v at the coil but MS isn't grounding it to spark.

I tested my hall sensor this morning and got values that suggest it's toast.
11v at terminal 3 was good
9.7v instead of 5v at terminal 2 is not good
Resistance value of 2.0 instead of 0 at terminal 1 is also not so good.

Note that the distributor I have is 001, not the 004 everyone recommends. I bet I made an ass out of myself for "ass"uming they were interchangeable. Think this could be the problem?

[J_Jones]

Just ran to the jy and grabbed an 004 distributor. Swapped it in and the coil is still not firing. The hall sensor is definitely grounding out when it's in a window and has 9.8v when in a window, that's right. I double checked all the grounds and wiring to the MS, I don't know what else to check..

Edit: Did the same test on the "new" 004 distributor and got all of the same numbers. Could the 10ohm resistor on the power wire to the distributor be giving me these numbers? What are the odds of having 2 bad hall sensors that read exactly the same?

[J_Jones]

Can anyone confirm that this circuit found in Tabor's thread for adding spark to a v3 board is correct? (The one I used)


The MSextra manual shows that I should have built this circuit

Why did he change that circuit?

[J_Jones]

Now that I look at those two circuits, Optoin is connected to c30, r12, etc regardless. So the only two differences between the two circuits is that c30 is there on Tabors and not on the other and r12 is a 390 resistor on Tabors and 1k on the msextra one. If I am looking at it right then they both call for the top circuit to go to s12, just Tabor's has a 1k pullup resistor on it. So to get from Tabor's to the msextra one all I would have to do is remove c30 and switch the 390 resistor at r12 to a 1k. Am I looking at this right? I am new to this and just trying to figure this out. I don't plan on making those changes until someone that knows what they are doing says that's right.

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

listen

if you are getting RPM signal in MS, don't mess with the dizzy.

it might be the vb921 that's borked.

Run a wire from the flatside of D14 to IGN (pin 36), and wire up a 124 ign module.

set it up to D14 in megatune or whatever, i prefer tunerstudio.

use HEI dwell settings, that's what I've been running and it works fine. You could use a 139 module and run at 50% fixed dwell duty too.

[J_Jones]

Originally Posted by DNAsEqUeNcE

listen

if you are getting RPM signal in MS, don't mess with the dizzy.

it might be the vb921 that's borked.

Run a wire from the flatside of D14 to IGN (pin 36), and wire up a 124 ign module.

set it up to D14 in megatune or whatever, i prefer tunerstudio.

use HEI dwell settings, that's what I've been running and it works fine. You could use a 139 module and run at 50% fixed dwell duty too.

I ran a wire from flatside of d14 to ign this morning and wired up the 139 module. 50% fixed dwell duty and spark output inverted. I am still getting an rpm signal but no spark. LED17 is set to Spark Output A and is always on when the board is powered up and when cranking. Shouldn't LED17 be flashing?

So I am getting pretty desperate with this thing. My input circuit seems to be right because I have an rpm signal and led18 is flashing when set to irq trigger. The one I used however (Tabor's) is a little different from what the MSextra manual says.

The output circuit suggested by Dnasequence is the one in the msextra manual except I don't have a 750r resistor going from d14 to 5v on the proto area, do I need to add that?: http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/...al.htm#bosch30

Contemplating changing the input and output circuits to exactly how the MSextra manuals show. Help?

[linuxman51]

led17 should probably pulse, not sure if it will pulse off or what, it's been a while since I paid any attention to that sort of stuff.

I've always wired up spark out by doing a 330 ohm resistor off the top of the near by resistor, r26, and run that to whatever ignition module I was using.

[J_Jones]

Originally Posted by linuxman51

led17 should probably pulse, not sure if it will pulse off or what, it's been a while since I paid any attention to that sort of stuff.

I've always wired up spark out by doing a 330 ohm resistor off the top of the near by resistor, r26, and run that to whatever ignition module I was using.

Easy enough, I will run top r26 -> 330->ign and report back

[J_Jones]

Alright, getting closer. LED17 now flashes when cranking over. That indicates it is sending out the signal to spark correct? Still no spark, but atleast it is sending out the signal.

[linuxman51]

indeed. now you need to look at igniter wiring and/or functionality.

[J_Jones]

Tested the ignitor and it worked fine; when you ground pin 6, it sparks. I left my input circuit alone, but I changed my output circuit to the one on the diyautotune volvo write up. I officially have spark! Car starts up, but as soon as I let go of the key it dies. Now to figure this out...

[J_Jones]

Took my first datalog, how do I upload it on here? TBricks says error wrong file type. Tried starting a few times, tried giving it some gas a time or two as well. It catches and runs for like a second and then dies. Any suggestions?

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

Warm up enrichment!

who's yer fuel maps from? what injectors bladiblah? wideband?

[J_Jones]

Originally Posted by DNAsEqUeNcE

Warm up enrichment!

who's yer fuel maps from? what injectors bladiblah? wideband?

Correction: The spark map is Kenny's. Not sure where I got the fuel map, just found one on here to use as a base. I could really use a base msq for a similar setup (b21ft pretty much stock) 450cc DSM blue top injectors. AEM UEGO.

Happen to have a starter msq that I can load and change settings to suit my setup? Thanks for you continued help

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

Yeah lemme try and pull mine, I have roughly the same, however I have a high comp b230f, so...

[J_Jones]

Originally Posted by DNAsEqUeNcE

Yeah lemme try and pull mine, I have roughly the same, however I have a high comp b230f, so...

shouldn't be a problem if I just use it to get started and adjust off of that. Thanks.

[linuxman51]

just tune it start with the fuel, then work your way over to spark. wait til the car is warmed up to adjust stuff on the map itself

[J_Jones]

I cannot for the life of me get this thing running. Crank, rev to ~600, die. Fuel on sparkplugs. Lost..

[J_Jones]

To new MS users: make sure you warmup enrichments are not set at 0. Fuel = fuel*warmup%. When warmup = 0, fuel = 0...

In other news, it runs and I will commence tuning tomorrow. Thanks for the help.