upright mounting a b230 16v in a 240

[mr zombie]

evening all
can anybody point me in the direction of any threads detailing the ins and outs of upright mounting a b230 16v in a 240.
ive had a search around and the only one i could find is 2fast242gt's thread, im wondering if theres any others about so i can get as much info as poss before tackling it

cheers
Tom

[FunkyStankyChicken]

you'll shoot your eye out

[jonah]

I don't know if there are any more threads on it?

I'd like to do it too, although it's not happening anytime soon. It strikes me that right hand drive would prove advantageous with an upright 16v in a 240, and it looks most excellent!

[2fast242gt]

What did you want to know its expensive and alot of work pm me with any questions

[2fast242gt]

.

[500dollar744ti]

i mean why? it's not like you are trying to put this in a 122 or something

[nathaninwa]

Cuz vert 16vt's are sex.

[jonah]

Originally Posted by 500dollar744ti

i mean why? it's not like you are trying to put this in a 122 or something

As it's right hand drive, it gives more room for exhaust/turbo so they don't conflict with the brake master cylinder/steering column, gives an opportunity to fix the crappy 240 engine mounts, and looks great, what's not to like?

[Poik]

Originally Posted by 2fast242gt

What did you want to know its expensive and alot of work pm me with any questions

Brian, can you elaborate on what is expensive about it and what is a lot of work?

From osmosis I have gathered that you need a B20 oil pan, and that you need to cut and weld the pickup on a B230 oil pump for the correct angle, and then make engine mounts. And for transmission you will either need to do a swap with an adapter plate for upright, or use an M4x with the uber rare M45 bellhousing from a 1974 140, or something.

[2fast242gt]

Yeah it adds up in small bits don't forget your new intake manifold and maybe exhaust if its a 240

[nathaninwa]

When verting with a gm V8 T5, the transmision actually gets located in the stock position that gm intended.

[carnut1100]

This looks like the route I will be taking sooner or later.
RHD 16v in 240 means auto as the head conflicts with the clutch master cylinder.
Tilton pedal box will solve it...at $800!
Mounting the engine upright will probably be cheaper than that, and will give room for turbo too. RHD 240 has very little room for turbo with steering shaft in the way, even less room for a bigger than stock turbo...
As I will be going to most likely a T5 gearbox anyhow, and the adapter stuff is non existant in Aus the bellhousing issue will be there for me upright or slanted so it's not an issue...

[mr zombie]

Originally Posted by carnut1100

RHD 16v in 240 means auto as the head conflicts with the clutch master cylinder.
RHD 240 has very little room for turbo with steering shaft in the way, even less room for a bigger than stock turbo...

these are the two main reasons why im doing it, the turbo i have is way bigger than a stock
one
and the 16v head sits stupid close to the clutch master, i have the clutch pedal from a 940 16v with the internal master that would solve that problem but as nathan said upright 16v are sex, so im going for that option instead

tom

[meeki007]

OK, I'm not saying don't do it. If you have the time and money go for it.

I have experienced up-righting a b230ft 8v It was a ton of work. Some of the things i see you needing to do for sure to make it happen.

Motor mounts: I used 140 b20b motor mount feet with early 240 motor mounts.
b20 oil pan: you will need this so i will clear the X member.
B230 oil pump: Cut and fabb up the pumps pipe to fit in the b20 pan
Down pipe: Cut and relocate pipe to new position

Possible other issues; When stuff gets moved around it causes a knock down effect. Expect certain wires to be too long or too short. The air intake may need to be modded to fit. Throttle linkage/ cable too short now etc.

Transmission suggestions. A m40 or m41 will fit on the back of a b230 however if you plan on making more than 300hp I would not use it.

see my sig link for ideas about mounting upright.

[BritishBrick]

Originally Posted by meeki007

OK, I'm not saying don't do it. If you have the time and money go for it.

I have experienced up-righting a b230ft 8v It was a ton of work. Some of the things i see you needing to do for sure to make it happen.

Motor mounts: I used 140 b20b motor mount feet with early 240 motor mounts.
b20 oil pan: you will need this so i will clear the X member.
B230 oil pump: Cut and fabb up the pumps pipe to fit in the b20 pan
Down pipe: Cut and relocate pipe to new position

Possible other issues; When stuff gets moved around it causes a knock down effect. Expect certain wires to be too long or too short. The air intake may need to be modded to fit. Throttle linkage/ cable too short now etc.
.

He was talking about a 230 in a 240 though, would your mounting solution in your 140 work in a 240 without mods to the crossmember are they the same in 140's and 240's?

Thx in advance!!

[The.method]

I'm looking at doing a powerglide upright 16v , i got 2 16v engines, but geting a powerglide in the uk is

[Poik]

Besides the advantage of looking totally awesome and giving you a LOT more room on the exhaust side for a nice header and huge turbo, mounting the engine upright and using the B20 pan lets you lower the engine almost 2" at the crankshaft centerline IIRC. This is great for lowering the center of gravity of the car, as well as makes it easier to fit a large transmission (such as a T56) in the tunnel.

[harribert]

Originally Posted by Poik

Besides the advantage of looking totally awesome and giving you a LOT more room on the exhaust side for a nice header and huge turbo, mounting the engine upright and using the B20 pan lets you lower the engine almost 2" at the crankshaft centerline IIRC. This is great for lowering the center of gravity of the car, as well as makes it easier to fit a large transmission (such as a T56) in the tunnel.

Doing some heavy extrapolation, this also implies that instead of mounting the engine lower you could employ a different, lower profile crossmember design that would allow you to have extra ground clearance with a heavily lowered car. Hmmm....

[Mueller]

Originally Posted by harribert

Doing some heavy extrapolation, this also implies that instead of mounting the engine lower you could employ a different, lower profile crossmember design that would allow you to have extra ground clearance with a heavily lowered car. Hmmm....

I like your thinking !!!

[Cameron]

Originally Posted by Poik

...advantage of looking totally awesome and giving you a LOT more room on the exhaust side for a nice header and huge turbo

This is the huge advantage to me. Especially in a 240. It's tight on the exhaust side with a 16v at the stock angle. A GT32 isn't a particularly big turbo and on my wagon it was super close everywhere.

The room from vert mounting would give you a lot of room for a nice clean bottom mount header too. You could even do a sweet backwards turbo setup

[DNAsEqUeNcE]

it would enable you to not have a turbo sticking out of the hood if you so desired

[olov]

Originally Posted by Nathaninwa

Cuz vert 16vt's are sex.

this is the only real reason for me at this point :P

[harribert]

That's your own fault. That turbo is too big.

[nathaninwa]

When I get my 240 front clip.....ill look into desinging a drop in, weld vert setup. Seems theres a lot of interest lately in this.

[adrianpike]

Originally Posted by harribert

Doing some heavy extrapolation, this also implies that instead of mounting the engine lower you could employ a different, lower profile crossmember design that would allow you to have extra ground clearance with a heavily lowered car. Hmmm....

You could do that, but hanging the pan further below the crossmember isn't really on my list of "bright ideas for herradumping a 240".

Originally Posted by Cameron

This is the huge advantage to me. Especially in a 240. It's tight on the exhaust side with a 16v at the stock angle. A GT32 isn't a particularly big turbo and on my wagon it was super close everywhere.

Yeah, I had to move mine ~10-20* up from the stock angle (as tight as the B204 intake would go) to be able to fit the turbo.

Originally Posted by DNAsEqUeNcE

it would enable you to not have a turbo sticking out of the hood if you so desired

Or, you could just spend more time packaging your ****s.