1997 Volvo 960 Performance Path

[Nebor]

First off, hi everybody, I'm a long time listener, first time caller. I'm registered on brickboard with 1 post, and not registered on swedespeed either. I've recently reclaimed a 1997 Volvo 960, with approx. 84k miles on it. I want this to be my project\fun car. I have a daily driver and a stop light monster so what I'm looking for in the Volvo is some handling and some punch.

As of now, the only mod to the car is a K&N panel filter, dropped in the stock airbox. I don't really see much else to be done with the intake. Is there any noticable gain by disconnecting the heater hose from the bottom end of the airbox? I know taking out the AMF sensor seems popular, but I also know it offers no performance increase, and can only cause harm. Anyways, any intake ideas would be appreciated.

Now, I've got my ECU tuning narrowed down to two companies: Power Chips Group and Upsolute. They offer the same boost (20hp and 25lb\ft torque) but Powerchips wants $475 and Upsolute wants $450. But Upsolute has a distributor not 5 minutes from my house, and I've spoken with them. He said I can go, get my ECU read, they'll email the file to Upsolute in Austria, Upsolute will tune it, send it back, I go in for another appointment, and they reprogram it. Powerchips group wants me to mail the ECU to Santa Monica. So they have a shipping cost, plus higher price. Plus if I need to get retuned, more shipping and waiting. Seems like Upsolute's a clear winner here.

Now on to exhaust. I've been turned on to a fella in Ft Worth who's pretty well known for doing great work at good prices. From what I've gleened from the forums, my 960 has 2 downpipes coming off the exhaust manifold, and these downpipes are 1&3/4" in diameter. They go into the cat, and come out as one 2" pipe, which stays the same through the muffler and widens to a 3" tip in the back. I've heard from a couple people now that a 3" exhuast would not be good, because I would have no backpressure. I've been advised to go with 2.5" exhaust, sounds good to me. I think having a custom header made would probably be the best bet, but feel free to correct me. How about 1&5/8" primaries on the header, going to a 2.5" collector? I don't really know anything about the cat or muffler, so feel free to suggest some good ones. It seems like I heard the Volvo cat is pretty nice. I've been told I should be able to get a new cat, new exhaust, and new piping for under $600. I have no idea how much a customer header might cost, any ideas?

Suspension... It seems complicated. As far as I know, the car has IRS. I've always thought it handled pretty well, it's the best handling car I've ever owned, by far. But I wouldn't mind tightning up the rear end a little to make it feel less sloshy. I don't know if it has Nivomats or not. I'm so confused by all I've read about IRS and the different shocks, and converting to a live axle that I've been considering just taking it to some kind of custom shop and having them figure it all out. So ANY advice on suspension would be appreciated. Again, I'm wanting tighter, maybe a little lower.

That pretty much covers it. Short of going nuts (forced induction) that's all there is for the 960, as far as I know. I plan these mods in the order of Exhaust, ECU, Suspension. That way I only have to get the ECU done once (I imagine it's tuned for the mods you have.)

So, thanks for reading all this, and please contribute what you can to the thread!

[tjts1]

I beg to differ. There is a lot more you can do to the intake. I have removed the screens and I have not seen any negative side effects in the past 10k miles. Thats just a start.

This is my ghetto cold air intake. 3 inch Home Depot heater duct. It works especially on the highway.
As far as the K&N, I really don't see the benefits. A regular MANN filer flows just as much air if not more. Try this article.
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0646
If you can get your hands on some 92-94 cams, those should be worth another 20hp with a slight penalty on low end torque.
Exhaust is another matter. I have been looking into it and the only real option is custom. I have run my car with just the CAT and it was actually quieter than what I expected. I still wouldn't do it every day.
Unfortunately our cars are the black sheep of the family. They are RWD with FWD technogy. Neither camp accepts them and therefore there is no aftermarket.
Welcome to the dark side.

[Nebor]

I see you took off the old heater hose entirely. Does that harm the engine at all, what with it taking longer to warm up from cold starts?

Also, on that pipe you have running to the grill, do you have a screen on the end of it? I see it's facing forwards, do you worry about water going in it when it's raining?

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by Nebor

I see you took off the old heater hose entirely. Does that harm the engine at all, what with it taking longer to warm up from cold starts?

Also, on that pipe you have running to the grill, do you have a screen on the end of it? I see it's facing forwards, do you worry about water going in it when it's raining?

The pre heater hose was removed along with the flapper mechanism. The problem with it (beside the fact that it is restrictive) is that the thermostat that controls the hot/cold air induction fails in the hot air position. Your engine ends up constantly ingesting super heated air. This increases your octane requrement and will eventually kill your AMM sensor. I would highly recomend you check that the flap is in the cold air position when the air temp is above freezing. This is purely an emissions device. It is there to help the engine warm up faster in very cold weather (imagine northern Sweden in winter). Every Volvo I have seen over 6 years old has this failure. I have driven in very hot and very cold weather without the flapper and have not had any problems. Flapper is at the bottom of the air box and looks like this:

More photos at:
http://photobucket.com/albums/v321/tjts1/960%20intake/

At the begining I did have a screen at the end of the pipe but I eventually removed it. I have found small rocks, sand and some leaves in the bottom of the air box. There was never any risk of any of that stuff making it past the air filter. The air box design is very smart. Any dirt particle or rocks have to make it down the tube, around the radiator, lose velocity as they bounce on the ribs of the tube and eventually fight gravity and fly upward toward the air filter. It just does not happen. But any dirt that does make it into the air box is trapped there untill I have a chance to clean it out. This is why I would caution you against using a K&N with this setup. All the dust and rocks will bounce around and eventually stick to the oil on the K&N. With a regular filter, the dust and sand just falls to the bottom. Also the MANN filter is a two stage filter. There is an extra layer of foam on top of the paper which stops most of the dust form getting stuck between the folds and cloging up the filter. Its a very very good filter. See photo. Can you tell Im a big fan?
I have made a habbit of cleaning out the air box with a wet paper towel at every oil change. Also I plan to change the filter once a year. At $9 a pop its well worth the extra performance. Here is a photo of a MANN filter.

White layer is the foam. I measured it once and found that the MANN filter had about twice the surface area of your typical Fram. I think Mahle filters are also very good but I have not had a chance to use one.

Yes water does get into the air box when it rains. I was worried about this at first and I opened it up after the first time I drove in the rain. The bottom of the air box was wet but the filter and the top half of the air box were completely dry. Now what I do is since the tube is flexble, I can bend the end closest to the grill 90 degrees to the side when it rains so oncoming air hits the side of the tube. I live in Southern California so this does not happen very often. I also do this when driving in the mountains in the winter.

[MikeHardy]

for header terms the B21/B23 header from JT tuning uses
42mm primarys
51mm secondaries
63mm collector.

thats setup to handle 525-575CC per cyl. yours is bit less so could go a little smaller onthe primaries while a little bigger for the secondarys. but should make a good basis for a 6-2-1 header.

as an example this in one KG trimning make for the old B30 inline 6 but the collector setup isn't as nice.....



....as this one from JT tuning for the B21/23

http://www.jt-tuning.se/products/image.asp?ID=266

[Nebor]

If you wouldn't mind, please just spell out the sizes of the primaries and secondaries that I should use. I'm not a mechanic, I have intermediate car knowledge at best. I won't be doing any of this work myself.

[Qc_Drifter]

It's been a long time since I posted 1!!

I'm more and more considering the 960 as the car I would like to have and put money in it.

My had one and I really liked it.

One thing that would have made the car better IMO is a Manual Tranny.

The garage where my dad always go said him that he could put in a 740 or 940 Manual Tranny in it. Do you think it could fit ?! Would it be a good tranny choice, and if not, which one would be better ?!

And would it be alot of fittage ?! How much $$$ could it cost ?!

Thanks for the advice and keep on posting for the modifications for the 960, I'm really interesting in knowing what could be done with this car !!

[Nebor]

The transmission in the 960 was lifted from the Toyota Supra. For putting out high horsepower, it's not going to get a whole lot better. But seeing as how it's rare that a 960 gets 300+hp, it might be better suited to a manual tranny for more control. I'm fine with the stock one though.

[nohbudi]

boost it.... my 2 cents

http://www.mvpvolvo.com/frm_index.cf...ar=3P4&tooth=8

[Nebor]

Originally Posted by nohbudi

boost it.... my 2 cents

http://www.mvpvolvo.com/frm_index.cf...ar=3P4&tooth=8

Did you even read my post?

[MikeHardy]

Originally Posted by Nebor

If you wouldn't mind, please just spell out the sizes of the primaries and secondaries that I should use. I'm not a mechanic, I have intermediate car knowledge at best. I won't be doing any of this work myself.

talk to the guy who's gonna build it about it. i dont know how to work out the specs ether, i was just passing on info i'd absorbed from somewhere else

[nohbudi]

Originally Posted by Nebor

Did you even read my post?

yep, but from my stand point, unless you have ALOT of money to throw at this, your not going to gain too much more power. these engines cost alot of money to make power with NA. and you most certainly wont find too much more power with bolt ons, in its current form.

have fun

[Qc_Drifter]

What do you mean about the transmission lifted from a Supra or some thing like that ?!

And does anyone know for the manual transmision swap possibilities ?!

[Nebor]

I mean that Volvo didn't develop that transmission. It's Asian sourced, the same transmission from a Toyota Supra. Volvo sells less than 150,000 cars a year, a very very small amount. So they haven't always been able to develop all their own gear, that stuff, they outsourced.

[Qc_Drifter]

Ok Thank's for the Answer

But do any one know if a manual tranny swap is possible ?! And which tranny should be used and what fittage is to do and anu other things that could be usefull to know.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by Qc_Drifter

Ok Thank's for the Answer

But do any one know if a manual tranny swap is possible ?! And which tranny should be used and what fittage is to do and anu other things that could be usefull to know.

There was a manual transmission made for the 960. Its called an M90. It was available in limited quatities in Europe on the 960 2.5 litre which we never got. I know of only 2 examples in North America. So the only realistic option is an adaptor plate for a BW t5 or similar. This has been done for the red block engines. The older 740 and 240 M46/M47 manual trans is not compatible with this engine.
Do a search. This subject has been discussed at length and there is a wealth of information on the site.

nohbudi makes a very good point. I know of one member that has done head work to this engine for some substantial gains. But unless you take it to the next level and turbo you are not going to get a lot more performance. For me intake, exhaust and a manual trans are as far as I would take this engine. After that I would either swap a built B5254t from an 850 or V8.

[Nebor]

How much would I be looking at for head work? Would I just buy new heads, or have them custom fabbed, or what?

[TheJoyOfSix]

Originally Posted by tjts1

There was a manual transmission made for the 960. Its called an M90. It was available in limited quatities in Europe on the 960 2.5 litre which we never got.

Just to clarify, the M90 was available with the B6254F (2.5l, 170bhp) which IIRC came in '95-'96, and the B6304K(?) (the re-cammed, detuned (also 170bhp) version of the B6304F (3.0l, 204bhp)), and came in '97/'98 S/V90's. Both of these engine variants were not offered in N America.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by V6 Man

Just to clarify, the M90 was available with the B6254F (2.5l, 170bhp) which IIRC came in '95-'96, and the B6304K(?) (the re-cammed, detuned (also 170bhp) version of the B6304F (3.0l, 204bhp)), and came in '97/'98 S/V90's. Both of these engine variants were not offered in N America.

V6 man thanks for the info. I learn new things everyday. In the US we had 92-94 B6304f or s rated at 201hp. Then 95-98 there was the B6304f or s rated at 180hp. I still do not understand why they would detune the engine. Volvo claimed inproved low end torque but I don't believe that one bit. I think it had more to do with a quick and cheap way of meeting more stringent emissions standards. Cars in the US sell on the HP they can advertise on TV. Nobody want to have less HP than last year. Its bad for business.
Did Volvo continue to offer the 204hp motor after 94 in europe along side the 170hp version?
Also do you have info on any company in europe offering cams or anything else for that matter for this motor?
Thanks for your help.

[amazon]

Originally Posted by V6 Man

Just to clarify, the M90 was available with the B6254F (2.5l, 170bhp) which IIRC came in '95-'96, and the B6304K(?) (the re-cammed, detuned (also 170bhp) version of the B6304F (3.0l, 204bhp)), and came in '97/'98 S/V90's. Both of these engine variants were not offered in N America.

True, but you can run the B6304F witht the computer from B6254F believe it or not.... THat opens up the opportunity to run your brick with an M90.

[MikeHardy]

i would think that what is needed to run an m90 is an M90. it's not computer controlled i wouldn't think any need for ECU changes

[TheJoyOfSix]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Did Volvo continue to offer the 204hp motor after 94 in europe along side the 170hp version?
Also do you have info on any company in europe offering cams or anything else for that matter for this motor?
Thanks for your help.

In Europe the B6304F rated at 204bhp was offered from 1991 when the 960 was launched right up untill the 960/S/V90 range was discontinued. More or less the same engine (with minor revisions) is the one offered in the S80 range today.

As far as I am aware, apart from the first few years of production that suffered from porous blocks and warped heads, the I6 is a smooth, reliable and powerful engine with many people comparing them favourably to BMW straight sixes.

As for cams, it's not something I've looked into yet (the 960 is still a bit too new for me!!), but I'm sure others will be able to help

[Nebor]

So you guys really believe that the newer cams are worse in every way? No more torque? I don't think it would difficult to attain some of the older cams, should they swap right in? I wouldn't be doing it myself, I lack the $1500 Volvo tools, and the priceless Volvo knowledge. :P

[amazon]

Originally Posted by ravennexus

i would think that what is needed to run an m90 is an M90. it's not computer controlled i wouldn't think any need for ECU changes

Yes and no. The slushbox is indeed computer controlled, and if you'd just bolt the M90 tranny onto the engine- well- the computer would be confused and the swap would be a failure.

[MikeHardy]

i assumed it controlled by a different box to the engine.