First post... advice wanted

[142T5]

Hello everyone

It's been a while since I've been on the forum, but having re-visited it in the last few days I can see that it is just as interesting as it was last time around. Last time I was on (under a different name) I was planning on fitting a 5 cylinder T5 motor into my 1971 142.

Since then sense has come over me and I've realised that it's going to cost an awful lot of work and money to install so I've decided to leave it for a while and focus on getting the other aspects of the car straightened out and just leave the trusty old B20E in their until it decided to spit the dummy, but until then I've got the 5 cylinder sitting here ready.

I'm thinking about upgrading the suspension at the moment. I allready have a set of Konis for the rear out of a parts car, so I plan on using them. I have heard that Konis for 140s are unavailable new now, is this true? I know IPD don't list Konis for 140s anymore so I guess they aren't. If they aren't available new, what would you suggest for front shocks? I was thinking about Bilsteins? Those of you with Bilsteins, are they any good?

I'm planning on fitting some poly urethane bushes. Super Pro seem to be the go down here in Australia.

Next up, I am wanting to get a larger front anti-sway bar. Is there a recommended size for 140s? I am planning on using K-Mac, and have just e-mailed them for prices but until I hear back from them, how much do you think I would be in for? I don't think I will bother with a rear bar as I've heard that fitting a rear bar is pointless unless you have an LSD, because you are just lifting the inside rear wheel and spinning the outside wheel. Is this true?

Last on the list is a set of lowering springs. Are they a worthwhile upgrade on a 140? I would like my car to be lower, but I don't really want to lose anything in the handling department. So, for anybody who has fitted aftermarket springs to a 140, are they worthwhile?

I e-mailed King Springs, and they got back to me saying they only have linear rate springs for 140s, they lower the car by approx. 30mm and are approx. 30% stiffer over standard. They only have rear springs in standard height which bothers me a little as I'm not really into the whole raked look, but with only a 30mm drop at the front anyway, would I notice any rake?

They recommended that if I wanted to fit lowered rear springs, that the standard springs be reset . Sorry, but what does this actually mean??? Is it some type of compression process?

I like the look of the K-Mac springs as you can specify your own drop height but how much would be suitable for a 142? I would like a nice low look but don't want to go backwards in the handling department. I would like to drop it by about 2-2.5 inches (approx 50-60mm). Would this be too much of a drop?

Thanks so much for any help you can give me.

BTW I just wanna say I am incredibly impressed by the bricks you are putting out over there in the US. There is quite a large number of you in the 13s and some even quicker!

Hopefully in the future I'll be able to afford the fit and be running in the 13s or maybe even 12s myself.

142T5

[DerSnart]

Originally Posted by 142T5

Those of you with Bilsteins, are they any good?

I dont personally have them, but I have friends with various cars that have chosen them when upgrading... and not a single one of them is disapointed. I plan on using them when I do suspension on my car, and I know other people here like them quite well.

[Bishop]

Next up, I am wanting to get a larger front anti-sway bar. Is there a recommended size for 140s? I am planning on using K-Mac, and have just e-mailed them for prices but until I hear back from them, how much do you think I would be in for? I don't think I will bother with a rear bar as I've heard that fitting a rear bar is pointless unless you have an LSD, because you are just lifting the inside rear wheel and spinning the outside wheel. Is this true?

K-mac bars run about $200-$250 Aus each, fitting bars as a matched pair is often important, but it depends on balance, ideally you want matched roll resistance front and rear, so really if you upgrade the front bar, usually you will want to upgrade the rear to keep handling consistent.

Last on the list is a set of lowering springs. Are they a worthwhile upgrade on a 140? I would like my car to be lower, but I don't really want to lose anything in the handling department. So, for anybody who has fitted aftermarket springs to a 140, are they worthwhile?

Uprated springs are a good idea on just about any car if you want good handling, to be honest I'd avoid KingSprings, do a forum search for an old thread of mine to find out why, I had great success with K-mac springs on 2 other cars though, so you may have better luck there.
In terms of height, due to the actual design on most cars suspension, handling can become worse if you drop more than 1.5-2 inches from stock, but it's up to you to decide if you want low, or really good handling.

[142T5]

Originally Posted by Bishop

K-mac bars run about $200-$250 Aus each, fitting bars as a matched pair is often important, but it depends on balance, ideally you want matched roll resistance front and rear, so really if you upgrade the front bar, usually you will want to upgrade the rear to keep handling consistent.

OK, sounds logical. I suppose I can always get both and if I find that running the rear is hindering me then I can always remove it. I'll hopefully get a quote soon.

Originally Posted by Bishop

Uprated springs are a good idea on just about any car if you want good handling, to be honest I'd avoid KingSprings, do a forum search for an old thread of mine to find out why, I had great success with K-mac springs on 2 other cars though, so you may have better luck there.

I had a read of that thread. It does appear that they probably aren't experienced enough with Volvos, because they seem to be pretty popular in other car circles, I guess it's just another case of Volvo descrimination in Australia. But at least they were willing to make some new rear springs up for you. I would definately like to hear some other peoples experiences with King Springs.

Originally Posted by Bishop

In terms of height, due to the actual design on most cars suspension, handling can become worse if you drop more than 1.5-2 inches from stock, but it's up to you to decide if you want low, or really good handling.

But I want both.

I guess a 2inch drop is enough. How much do the IPD springs lower a 140 by??? If I plan on fitting larger wheels (i.e. 16s or 17s), does that mean I can lower the car more with out harming the handling because the bigger wheels are effectively raising the car??? I guess if this was true I still wouldn't be able to go too far because the wheels would rub...

142T5

[fidel]

shocks.....

koni shocks are still available. bilstien HD are good. bilstien TC are not. KYB will not work on lowerd car. decarbon/r-sport, if you find some tell me. i would go with either the koni, witch is adjustable .or the bilstien HD. i would go with what is cheaper down under.

springs.......

i would get progressive rate springs in the front. they make a incredibale difference over strait rate. i run 250#-500# springs in the front. rear spring, i am curently running ipd lowering coils from a 240. they are to soft in my opinion. i would sugjest doing this its cheap and adjustable. http://mason.gmu.edu/~mtowery/volvo/...r_springs.html
progressive rate springs are availabe from http://www.v-performance.com/products.html

sways......

i am running IPD 25mm front and 19mm rear. i have not tried any other combo but stock. it is a vast improvement. you could probably make adjustabe ones for the same price as IPD.

bushings.....

polys are worth there weight in gold. i have super pros.

wheels....

so many choices. you will have tire clearance issuses if you lower it more than 2", go wider than 235 on the tires or get the wrong offset. 140s have a 40mm offset. 240s have a 25mm offset. i have run 240 wheels on my 140 with no problems. front wheel drive volvos have a 43mm offset. seen them on a 140. fit fine. havent tried it yet.


best of luck

[Aussie Volvo]

Hi 142t5

You said you had a 5cyl engine what type is it (eg 10valve 20 valve or turbo) where did you get it from and how much did it cost

I will be looking for one in the near future to do a conversion

What gearbox are you going to run behind the 5 cyl

[142T5]

Originally Posted by Aussie Volvo

Hi 142t5

You said you had a 5cyl engine what type is it (eg 10valve 20 valve or turbo) where did you get it from and how much did it cost

I will be looking for one in the near future to do a conversion

What gearbox are you going to run behind the 5 cyl

The motor is a 20V T5 or T5-R motor. I'm not sure, pretty sure it's a T5 motor. It came from a wrecker in Brisbane. See PM for more info.

I plan on using a Supra 5 speed, see if I can track down a 960 bellhousing and get an adaptor plate made up. I'm not sure what I'll do clutchwise, I assume that I will have to get some kind of hybrid thing made up from the Supra clutch and the T5 clutch.

The motor did not come with a turbo, computer or loom. Turbo wise I think I will go for a Mitsu TD05-16G from an EVO, and then upgrade to something a little more substantial, like a Garret GT30 or something when I can afford it. And in regards to a computer, wether or not I go for an aftermarket EMS or see if I can track down a stock computer.

But, this is all a good while off, probably a couple of years, I need to start saving my pennies cos it will all undoubtedly cost a lot.

142T5

[klr142]

I agree with everything that Fidel already stated, just adding what i've heard/learned/experienced...

my 2 cents:

140s take to lowering better than 240s because of their superior non-strut front suspension, and then because it's a live axle in the back, they don't really care too much about how low you go back there. If you go real low, (2" drop probably will need/want one) you may need or want an adjustable panhard rod to get the rear axle centered again underneath the car. 2" drop is as much as i would ever consider dropping a 140 for on the street driving... You should be fine with that, and prog. fronts are a good idea as stated. There are quite a few racers that are running 3" lower than stock that i've read about. And judging by most of the 140 race car pictures out there, they're all running about that or more...

Bilstiens would be good for shocks, and you can actually still get R-Sport shocks through the dealer i think... Check the gallery at the bottom for the instal pics

Poly, i really want to upgrade to full poly, should help out a good bit with road feel and confidence in what the rear end is doing...

Sways, i have IPD bars, i'm not sure if my front bar is the older 28mm one or the newer 25mm one though, but my rear bar is 19mm. If you want to do autocrossing, the rear bar PROBABLY won't help you, the inside wheel does pick up, and does spin, I know. But, if you aren't going for the fastest autox times, you can use one for sure, especially if you like some tail out fun here and there. My friend has an older IPD front 22mm bar, and no rear bar, and then older IPD race springs on his car.(the guy with the Rsport front shocks) I can't comment on the handling too much, because i haven't been in it when it's being pushed...

Later 850 wheels like Fidel said do work on 140s. The first issue you come into(when running T5-R and 850R wheels) is that if your car is really low, when you hit bumps on the highway, the top inside of the tire will rub on the inner fender, and act like a brake... Kinda scary, but only an issue if you're running really low(2" probably can be considered real low.). I'd prefer to run some spacers, of the 5mm kind or maybe more. 5mm should be enough though. My friend still ran his car around without them, when it sometimes rubbed in there. FWIW

"If I plan on fitting larger wheels (i.e. 16s or 17s), does that mean I can lower the car more with out harming the handling because the bigger wheels are effectively raising the car??? I guess if this was true I still wouldn't be able to go too far because the wheels would rub..."

That does NOT mean you can lower the car more. When using those larger sizes of wheels, you WANT to get lower profile tires, that's the whole point to getting larger wheels, to run lower profiles, less flex, better handling. And looks And yeah, if you didn't get lower profile tires, that would just make them rub even more.

Yeah, that's about that for what i like to think. Hope it helps! Peace,

[142T5]

Originally Posted by klr142

I agree with everything that Fidel already stated, just adding what i've heard/learned/experienced...

my 2 cents:

140s take to lowering better than 240s because of their superior non-strut front suspension, and then because it's a live axle in the back, they don't really care too much about how low you go back there. If you go real low, (2" drop probably will need/want one) you may need or want an adjustable panhard rod to get the rear axle centered again underneath the car. 2" drop is as much as i would ever consider dropping a 140 for on the street driving... You should be fine with that, and prog. fronts are a good idea as stated. There are quite a few racers that are running 3" lower than stock that i've read about. And judging by most of the 140 race car pictures out there, they're all running about that or more...

Bilstiens would be good for shocks, and you can actually still get R-Sport shocks through the dealer i think... Check the gallery at the bottom for the instal pics

Poly, i really want to upgrade to full poly, should help out a good bit with road feel and confidence in what the rear end is doing...

Sways, i have IPD bars, i'm not sure if my front bar is the older 28mm one or the newer 25mm one though, but my rear bar is 19mm. If you want to do autocrossing, the rear bar PROBABLY won't help you, the inside wheel does pick up, and does spin, I know. But, if you aren't going for the fastest autox times, you can use one for sure, especially if you like some tail out fun here and there. My friend has an older IPD front 22mm bar, and no rear bar, and then older IPD race springs on his car.(the guy with the Rsport front shocks) I can't comment on the handling too much, because i haven't been in it when it's being pushed...

Later 850 wheels like Fidel said do work on 140s. The first issue you come into(when running T5-R and 850R wheels) is that if your car is really low, when you hit bumps on the highway, the top inside of the tire will rub on the inner fender, and act like a brake... Kinda scary, but only an issue if you're running really low(2" probably can be considered real low.). I'd prefer to run some spacers, of the 5mm kind or maybe more. 5mm should be enough though. My friend still ran his car around without them, when it sometimes rubbed in there. FWIW

"If I plan on fitting larger wheels (i.e. 16s or 17s), does that mean I can lower the car more with out harming the handling because the bigger wheels are effectively raising the car??? I guess if this was true I still wouldn't be able to go too far because the wheels would rub..."

That does NOT mean you can lower the car more. When using those larger sizes of wheels, you WANT to get lower profile tires, that's the whole point to getting larger wheels, to run lower profiles, less flex, better handling. And looks And yeah, if you didn't get lower profile tires, that would just make them rub even more.

Yeah, that's about that for what i like to think. Hope it helps! Peace,

Thanks for the help. I got a quote back from K-Mac.

K-Mac 22mm front bar - $165
K-Mac 18mm rear bar - $225
K-Mac springs (any height required) - $330 (Set 4)

They seem to think that I shouldn't go any bigger then a 25mm bar on the front being a 4 cylinder. I think I will end up just ordering a 25mm front bar and a 19mm rear like the ipd bars, they seem to know what they are doing. And I think springs wise I'll end up going for a 2 inch drop, it sounds like I could have some problems if I go for anything more then that. Still tossing up between Konis and Bilsteins for the front, I'll have to get some quotes for them and it may well be price that makes the decision for me. I checked out the Superpro (or is that Superflex??? The Aussie one.) and they had a price of 0 marked next to all the 140 stuff so maybe they aren't available anymore. I guess I should give them an e-mail too. Superflex seem to have pretty expensive prices, but maybe it's psychological them using the pund and all, I dunno. Anyway, any more experience would be much appreciated.

142T5

[Tilstar]

OK, my old 142 was lowered. PM me if ya want a pic.

Konis and Kingsprings. And sway bars (don't know which sway bars).

4 things happened
1. It got a whole lot easier to turn the wheel...like adding power steering even with the small sports steering wheel. (can't explain it )

2. The thing cornered like it was on rails. Whipping through government funded fun bits, aka roundabouts became **** fun.

3. Oooh the launches..... Negative turbo lag... well u know. HC worked engine, a supra 5 speed and non-existant diff bounce.... a beautiful thing.

4. Damn kidneys ruptured.... Not much good on rough country roads, and I was doing 1000 km a week at the time.

just my 2c

[AJS]

Noltec are also Au based and make bushes. From my experience there compound is a little harder than Super Pro and they generally require a press to fit. I've had some VERY bad experiences with K-mac. Changing quoted prices AFTER delivery, selling bar size as xx but making a smaller sized bar (and not informing me), Bar not asymmetrical (sp), Poor quality bars, Poor bush quality, having car booked in yet he forgot to tell the bar maker so I had several hours wasted driving and some more serious issues that I will not mention here. My experiences with him were the worst of any I have had EVER on any purchase. I understand my experiences were not uncommon but can only comment on what I went through (which was shocking). I will state that I was VERY impressed with some of his staff and there attitude to my experience with him. I would suggest you look at a quality product like Whiteline or one of the many other bar makers.

Kings Springs or any spring maker should be able to make them to your requirements. (added)

[142T5]

Hmmm, sounds like a bit of of a worry. I think I might check Whiteline out now... it seems like someone has trouble with almost all manufacturers at some point.

142T5

[Bishop]

You can always find someone to bag just about any company, Whiteline know nothing about Volvos, took waaaaaay to long to deliver my 700 bar, and considering the cost, the finish on it is pathetic.

Dealing with any company is always a risk, it does not help that no one in Australia really has any real experience with Volvos, but if you bought into every piece of negative information about all of them, you would never get anything done to your car.

Weight up what you really want, pump everyone involved for as much info as you can get, and then take a chance with select products from select suppliers, it's always going to be a risk, but it's not like you have a huge amount of choices.

[142T5]

Yeah, I suppose. I guess if I had bucketloads of money I could get everything from ipd and Vintage Performance... for quality Volvo products from a quality Volvo specific producer. I see that ipd don't even list swaybars for 140s now, they may be available for special order but it is a bit of a shame. They don't list many parts for 140s anymore, well, as many as they used to. I wonder why?

142T5