740: Had a clutch estimate today

[500dollar744ti]

^^^ one of the ways you can save money is order your parts from FCP, get it all together, take it to that mechanic and say i need an estimate to install these parts. it will be less than $1200 and the same work gets done.

the key to saving money is doing your research. this guy has no obligation to save you money by ordering your parts online but i'm sure that if you order them and bring them over there he would be happy to install them and save you some money.

[Coupe' de Grace]

if the inexperienced cut rate clutch place does it, i will bet good money they won't get the shifter reassembled with the bushings in place correctly and your flywheel will have runout from specks of dirt on the mating surfaces and lack of "actual machine work" e'g' beltsanders and such... ask us how we know

[tryingbe]

Originally Posted by 500dollar744ti

^^^ one of the ways you can save money is order your parts from FCP, get it all together, take it to that mechanic and say i need an estimate to install these parts. it will be less than $1200 and the same work gets done.

Keep in mind, it'll be most likely with no warranty behind the work.

[500dollar744ti]

yup, that's the catch. once people find out all the reasons why something costs what it does and all the catches involved with trying to save a buck, they usually realize the price is quite reasonable.

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by jeblieWun

Sure, but the online vendors are making money too, they just have less expense. The difference in price between fcp and the mechanic seemed pretty extreme, but I guess thats because there are two middle men vs one.

economies of scale... it's not just the number of middle men, it's the time you're willing to wait vs the time a shop can afford to wait on parts to arrive, it's having recourse readily available if a part is defective, etc.

If you order your stuff from fcp, and it works great for a week and suddenly ****s the bed, they're going to tell you to mail the part back so they can pass judgement on it, and replace it (or whatever). Assuming they do replace it and don't cite you for improper installation or what have you, you're going to be out of the car for probably two weeks if you live any distance away from them.

What's that time worth to you? And what's that time cost the shop in terms of storage, lost business, excess time, etc- remember they have to keep your ****box halfway disassembled and potentially taking up a bay depending on the nature of the failure. That's even more lost revenue for them. So if they got the part from fcp and their stuff is tied up for two weeks waiting, they've lost who knows how much business or productivity to save $140.

If they get it from someone local or a place that's close enough to have overnight service at a reasonable (ground) cost, they can get things turned around much faster. As a result, your junk isn't tying up their shop, you aren't without a car for half a month, and everyone moves on.

It's also entirely possible that the parts they order are not even the same parts fcp carries. fcp carries a lot of **** along with other stuff, so your mileage may varry for the $50 you save. Does that mean you should get soaked if you're doing the repair yourself? no. But you've got free time to look around at everything, these guys are working for a living. they don't have 5 hours to sit around and search the ends of the internet to save $5 more on a given part (That may have to be drop shipped, that you may end up having to wait two months for. I decided to help a buddy out and order rod bolts from his shop, two and a half months ago. they still haven't left ARP, and he doesn't know why and I don't have my parts. Glad I didn't need em right away).

Later in life you'll realize most of these things, but while you're in college with huge amounts of time to waste on trivial ****, it matters. I don't say that to be condescending, I've been right there too. Either you have to sack up and figure out how to do it yourself, or ya gotta pony up.

[500dollar744ti]

Originally Posted by olov

oh, i understand, but you cannot say that all customers are alike either. if you fix a car for mrbill, and say, "look man, i only changed the slave, but didn't change the master to save you money."

MrBill would not be a customer, he's a close friend, i can replace his clutch for free.

can i replace someone else's clutch for free if they bring me the parts? sure. am i willing to do that for anybody but friends and family? nope.

[jeblieWun]

Originally Posted by 500dollar744ti

MrBill would not be a customer, he's a close friend, i can replace his clutch for free.

can i replace someone else's clutch for free if they bring me the parts? sure. am i willing to do that for anybody but friends and family? nope.

Meet me halfway? I'll pay your gas money

[olov]

Originally Posted by tryingbe

Lower costs, keep the quality, so more profits is what leads to outsourcing manufacturing in China. Look at how well that's doing for US.


Something have to give when the price goes down:

Labor
Parts cost
Overheads

by that idea, we should all run race gas, with royal purple oil, replace the entire drivetrain when you need a headgasket, etc. hell maybe we'll just make cars that disintegrate after a few years and only drive brand new cars - that's the best quality possible right?

[jeblieWun]

Originally Posted by linuxman51

Either you have to sack up and figure out how to do it yourself, or ya gotta pony up.

Yeah I suppose....

By the way you and 500dollarmatt are fast typers.

[500dollar744ti]

Originally Posted by jeblieWun

Meet me halfway? I'll pay your gas money

if you were local, i would certainly do it for cheap, but not free. i got people (friends and family) in line to get car stuff worked on and those are my priorities when i'm done with my regular work.

[jeblieWun]

Originally Posted by 500dollar744ti

if you were local, i would certainly do it for cheap, but not free. i got people (friends and family) in line to get car stuff worked on and those are my priorities when i'm done with my regular work.

I see. I read your write up on the instrument panel and was wondering how you know how to do all that..
BTW I am a victim..my speedo likes to take long rests at 45, and sometimes drops to 0 when im on the freeway.

[TrickMick]

“We do three types of jobs – Cheap, Quick and Good. You can have any two.”

“A good quick job – won’t be cheap”
“A good job cheap – won’t be quick”
“A cheap job quick – won’t be good.”

I *think* that particular sign hangs in a LOT of shops....
pretty succinct *and* in broad strokes fairly accurate....

[JB3]

Originally Posted by linuxman51

economies of scale... it's not just the number of middle men, it's the time you're willing to wait vs the time a shop can afford to wait on parts to arrive, it's having recourse readily available if a part is defective, etc.

x2 on entire post, but especially this part. I need lower control arms on my 89. A local volvo shop quoted me 100 dollars a control arm, plus an hour per side via book. so about 250 (with bushings) for parts, and 250 for labor, to total a 500 dollar repair and loss of use of the car for 1 day.

With that quote, I found lower control arms on rockauto for 40 bucks a side. about 100 with bushings vs 250 from the shop for parts. However, after doing the brakes on my car and taking 2 hours just to even get the rotor off the hub (requiring a 12 ton press for something thats not even bolted on normally), I know for a fact that his estimate of 1 hour per side will be more like 2.5-3.5 hours per side based on rusty fastners, so his 500 dollar estimate will be more like 1000 bucks all said and done, after every rusty component attached breaks or must be destroyed to remove, ball joints, sway bar links, and then a recommended alignment after the fact.

Bottom line is im going to do it myself over time after work, and the car will be out of commission for over a week guaranteed while I do this, plus a couple weeks to see my parts in the mail. Im also going to preemptively add all that stuff thats going to break or require a torch to remove as well, so make it about 300 bucks in parts and my own personal labor and 3 weeks of downtime from ordering parts and car immobile.

On these old cars, the price really adds up. On a 90, in my area, a mechanic could expect to have to us the torch a dozen times getting out rusted or corroded fastners pulling something like the transmission. Some places won't even look at a car past 15 years old, unless they know you. This may be different since the OP is in CA and cars are amazingly preserved.

If you like driving old cars, do what I do, get a bunch of them and do the work yourself. That way there is always one that works, while the rest are broken and you can take your time doing the repair. just isnt worth it to have a shop work on anything really old.

[Canuckvolvo]

Originally Posted by olov

hell maybe we'll just make cars that disintegrate after a few years and only drive brand new cars - that's the best quality possible right?

The Big 3 (Chrysler especially) seem to agree with you! At least the bailout seems to have smartened them up some...

On topic- lots of good advice here. Best thing you can do is educate yourself. The more you can learn about how your car works, what it takes to fix it (especially when it comes to old/rusty parts), the cost to run a shop, find a mechanic who KNOWS his stuff and your car....the better off you'll be. I had (in Calgary) a couple of shops I trusted to work on my car, even though there wasn't any job I couldn't do myself- sometimes my time (and knuckles, and back) is worth more than a few hundred dollars of labor.

[TrickMick]

Originally Posted by JB3

- SNIP -
If you like driving old cars, do what I do, get a bunch of them and do the work yourself. That way there is always one that works, while the rest are broken and you can take your time doing the repair. just isnt worth it to have a shop work on anything really old.

well alRIGHTY then!
lets see how this scenario plays out for people who have to deal
with "codes enforcement" snoops who get PISSY at a yard full of
rusting / partially stripped NON-RUNNING hulks....

or perhaps those who can't AFFORD but * 1* "car at a time"

and where will all the TECHNICAL help come from??? I'm SURE
you aren't gonna volunteer to pay the "shop rate" to query any
of us here who actually WORK IN SHOPS ON OLD IRON...I do this
"help as I can" in "paying it forward" for all the "old guys" who took THEIR
VALUABLE TIME to teach / coach / guide / mentor ME as I was
"comin' up thru the ranks"....
I take time out of every day to ASSIST
folks who are tying to be as self sufficient as they can be...
not everybody on TBrix is "working in the yard playing cars" - *SOME
OF US ACTUALLY HAVE WORK FOR A LIVING* and we "pay the bills"
by using the "torches and lifts and grinders and specialized diagnostic
tools and compressors etc that we PAID FOR BUSTING OUR
KNUCKLES AND BACKS in efforts to feed and clothe "the family"....

I'll never meet some of the guys from Aus that I've spent time chasing
goodies (info) for *but* it DOES mean I get the benefit of learning
stuff MYSELF *AND* it is an exercize in KHARMA....YMMV

[WindowsBreakerG4]

Originally Posted by tryingbe

Mechanics don't order from rockauto or fcpgroton and wait a week before they can start. They order from local places so they can get their parts fast, and local places might not have the cut throat prices you're looking for. Renting warehouse, stocking parts, transport parts, middle men, clerk at the autostore, etc all cost money.

That's not really true. Many use worldpac or IMC which tend to be CHEAPER (be it probably not by tons) than FCP and rockauto, or they have commercial accounts with local places which also gets them pretty good prices.

That being said, most of them charge MSRP for their parts.


1200 doesn't seem outrageous. You're looking at one of the reasons I do my own repairs, labor isn't cheap, specially not in CA.

Doing a clutch really isn't that horrid, it's not that many bolts, just time consuming

[JB3]

Originally Posted by TrickMick

well alRIGHTY then!
lets see how this scenario plays out for people who have to deal
with "codes enforcement" snoops who get PISSY at a yard full of
rusting / partially stripped NON-RUNNING hulks....

or perhaps those who can't AFFORD but * 1* "car at a time"

and where will all the TECHNICAL help come from??? I'm SURE
you aren't gonna volunteer to pay the "shop rate" to query any
of us here who actually WORK IN SHOPS ON OLD IRON...I do this
"help as I can" in "paying it forward" for all the "old guys" who took THEIR
VALUABLE TIME to teach / coach / guide / mentor ME as I was
"comin' up thru the ranks"....
I take time out of every day to ASSIST
folks who are tying to be as self sufficient as they can be...
not everybody on TBrix is "working in the yard playing cars" - *SOME
OF US ACTUALLY HAVE WORK FOR A LIVING* and we "pay the bills"
by using the "torches and lifts and grinders and specialized diagnostic
tools and compressors etc that we PAID FOR BUSTING OUR
KNUCKLES AND BACKS in efforts to feed and clothe "the family"....

I'll never meet some of the guys from Aus that I've spent time chasing
goodies (info) for *but* it DOES mean I get the benefit of learning
stuff MYSELF *AND* it is an exercize in KHARMA....YMMV

do you disagree? since when does me saying get a couple old crappy cars if you like to drive old models so that you can always keep one operational not make sense? How does this translate into "SOME OF US ACTUALLY HAVE TO WORK FOR A LIVING" ? Give me a break.

I personally have 3 cars and a work van, all registered, all insured, tax and insurance are cheap since all 4 cost 500-1000 bucks apiece, and I live in an urban area and im far from rich, it is possible. All 4 cost LESS to insure and keep registered than my GFs new car. Where I lose out is buying parts, but I love it, so its worth it to me.

Typically one is drivable all the time,(apart from the work van, which is always in full tune and maintenance), and the other two are always down for something that needs to be done.

No need to get up on a high horse and preach, I put my time in too and still do. Years of working truck fleet service, in snow sleet and rust conditions, I know what im talking about when it comes to wasting a shops time bringing in an old rusty car.

Things may be different where the OP is since corrosion levels are low. Im saying for me, I agree that the shop rate quoted for a clutch job seemed pretty reasonable, but id be prepared for it to increase 500 bucks since the car is old.

[2manyturbos]

Originally Posted by jeblieWun

Ill begin by saying that there is a known hydraulic issue with my clutch, in addition to it being almost completely burnt out.

I had a "Swedish Auto" Mechanic give me an estimate to fix my clutch with the following for a '91 740 M46:
Master Cylinder
Slave Cylinder
Machined Flywheel
Pilot bearing
Clutch Kit

He wanted almost $1200 with labor. Yeh I walked away. He wanted something like $200 for the master and $150 for the slave.

I think the clutch kit is almost $300 by itself. So, approx $700 in parts and machine work leaving $500 for the labor. His quote is right in line with reality. Have fun doing it yourself.

[2manyturbos]

Originally Posted by 500dollar744ti

if you were local, i would certainly do it for cheap, but not free. i got people (friends and family) in line to get car stuff worked on and those are my priorities when i'm done with my regular work.

Since you work at a dealership, why not give the OP a reality check and tell him what it would cost to have the job done through the regular channels at your dealership. Not a down to the penny quote, just a ball park.

[coonmanx]

Shopping around for a mechanic is vital. I am on my fourth mechanic right now and he is pretty good. Not that he hasn't made a few small mistakes (like not checking that the ground wire for the alternator was secured properly to the block during installation of an alternator). But I don't believe in blindly trusting any mechanic. If they are good and treat you right you go back to them. If they mess up (like not checking crankcase ventilation while installing a turbo) you find another mechanic. It's definitely not a perfect world out there. I have taken my own parts to a shop many times and I have also used parts that they supplied. There are advantages in both cases. The bottom line is you have to do your research. I personally wouldn't deal with a place that marks up parts a bunch. They should be able to show you how much the part cost them. My shop charges $80 per hour for labor so they get their money and they are doing quite well.

As to the orignial quote that the OP got, it seems reasonable. It cost me just over $1000 to get a new clutch put in the 240 Turbo. The only problem was that it wasn't the clutch that was the problem (it probably would have needed replacement at some point anyway) but the clutch pedal bracket that was completely bent and causing the clutch cable to run out of adjustment. That got fixed soon after and unfortunately cost a lot because the top bolt for the bracket had torn a hole in the body. They did manage to fix it however.

In the end, the more you know the better able you will be to deal with mechanics. And you can always get a second estimate.

[500dollar744ti]

Originally Posted by 2manyturbos

Since you work at a dealership, why not give the OP a reality check and tell him what it would cost to have the job done through the regular channels at your dealership. Not a down to the penny quote, just a ball park.

about $2650

[2manyturbos]

Originally Posted by 500dollar744ti

about $2650

Even higher than I thought. I had a customer take a 960 to a local Volvo shop because his flex plate ring gear was starting to fail. The quote was $2,200. I installed a used flex plate and did the rear main seal at the same time because it was just starting to leak and got him on his way for $450. It's not a job I like to do, however, $400 for 6 hours work is worth the pain.

[500dollar744ti]

the extra money would be on account of the slave/master cylinder replacement with flywheel re-surface.

a strait up clutch replacement with new PP, TO bearing, pilot bearing and rear main would be about $1800 out the door.

[500dollar744ti]

when i first read it i saw $1200 for labor and somehow thought it didn't include parts. then i was thinking, that's a little steep for labor, not out of the ballpark, but expensive.

then i saw that it was labor with parts included and i thought GTFO that's a great price.

[coonmanx]

Definitely in the ballpark.