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Old 06-13-2003, 11:36 PM   #1
linuxman51
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Default 16v turbo faq

Ok. Not quite what I was shooting for, but this will work just fine.
Addendum to the 16v FAQ
Why? Because n xntrx has likely left us forever, and things need to periodically be updated in a central location.

Conversion Parts/suppliers
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=162853 <- tensioners and timing belt, intake and exhaust manifold conversion flanges.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=161442 <- reliefs cut in turbo pistons


Fidel is in the process of having kevlar 850 timing belts manufactured, this will provide a higher strength zero stretch alternative. He also makes a billet crank gear that should be substantially stronger than the OEM 16v crank gear (Which is absolutely prone to breaking under increased loads and power levels)

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=173051 <- shortened distributors for use in 200 series installations.
Internals/valve train
Both RSI, inc and Knox motorsports are developing separate(from each other) valve train packages that will ostensibly replace the somewhat irritating hydraulic lifters.
RSI sells rod and piston sets, as does John V.

Timing belt Info
The Gates T-139 is still a vialble option, however in more recent years several other solutions have emerged. The later 850 timing belt (part number with -262) works fine.
The VW tensioner's range can be extended by using a DSM idler pulley, or, for even more range, a dsm tensioner pulley opposite the VW tensioner.


Engine Management
Both Thelostartof and Fred are allegedly developing 16v+t chips for use with lh 2.4.
Megasquirt or any other aftermarket management system is still generally recommended at this point, however competitive chip offerings could reduce this need in lower budget/goal builds.
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Last edited by linuxman51; 08-05-2009 at 01:16 AM..
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Old 01-17-2005, 07:54 AM   #2
n xntrx volvo
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Default 16v turbo faq

For Help With Abbreviations

*NOTE* this should be considered a stage 4 upgrade, without the supporting mods of stage 0-3, theres little point in doing/ reading this. Click here for stages 0,1,2,3.

Volvo Turbo 16V B230 DOHC "Twin Cam" Information


This is NOT a cheap or simple project, but it is 100% do-able.

WHY CHOOSE THE 16V HEAD?

There are several good reasons to select a 16V cylinder head as the platform for a performance engine. The largest advantage this head has over an 8 valve head is increased gas flow. Generally engines with 4 valves per cylinder have a pent roof combustion chamber displaying good burn characteristics. Generally intake and exhaust ports are direct and free flowing leaving little to improve upon.

Very little is required to "warm up" Volvo's 16 valve head. Intake channels are direct and clear. The valves are already sized the accepted "optimum" for a road race performance engine. Exhaust valves are stainless, and suitable for turbo charging. The exhaust ports are already D shaped (flowing better than round or square ports of the same cross section area.)

A common mistake made when comparing a 16V head with an 8V head is measuring valve surface area. Let's demonstrate using Volvo heads:

8V SOHC, Intake valve diameter: 44mm
16V DOHC, Intake valve diameter: 34.5mm

8V SOHC, Intake valve surface area: 1520mm
16V DOHC, Intake valve (total) surface area: 1870mm

This means the 16V head has 23% more possible flow area than the 8V head, right? WRONG! Air does not flow through the valves. It travels AROUND the valves. For the most part, the opening at the seat is the restriction, NOT the port size.

8V SOHC, Intake valve circumference: 138mm
16V DOHC, Intake valve circumference: 108mm x2 = 216mm

8V SOHC, Intake valve lift with T cam: 9.93mm
16V DOHC, Intake valve lift with U cam: 9.38mm
(both cams are standard fitment on B230FT and B234F)
8V SOHC, Intake valve fully open possible flow area: 1370mm
16V DOHC, Intake valves fully open possible flow area: 2026mm

A 48% increase in possible flow area with the valves open! Now, this is pretty basic. We all know that this head does not flow 48% more than the 8V head, due to all kinds of complicated reasons that I don't pretend to understand. This was just meant to show that even though the valve surface area is not that much of an increase over the "regular" head, the difference in possible flow is massive.
The B234 uses hydraulic lifters, no more shims, but expensive to replace. The B230 and B234 use the same head gasket.

Some Q & A:

What model car can I find a 16V head in?
1989 - 1990 740GLE
1991 - 1992 940GLE
For a successful conversion, the starting point is seeking out a non turbo 740/940 GLE with a 16V head. With a second hand head, beware of bent valves or broken cam carriers - a sign of belt breakage. Be buyer wise. Replacement components (new) are typically sold in sets and are expensive. Remember to obtain all related components such as sensors, (some) wiring, inlet manifold, cams, ignition distributor, brackets etc.



Why can't I use a B234 block?
There are two reasons. First, these engines have an external belt driven oil pump, which is less desirable than the internal B230 pump. It is reported that these castings have un-even cylinder wall thickness - not a good feature in a performance engine, especially if it is to be bored out.
This is the easiest solution for 700/900 series cars though. since you can grab the whole long block, and cross member, avoiding the problems with the pistons, and tensioner.

Can I use the stock 16V camshafts?
Yep. You may need to adjust the timing with some new wheels though. More info to come.


Can I use the stock exhaust valves?
The Volvo original valves are stainless, and suitable for turbo charging - just be careful about cam overlap.


What model years B230 blocks are suitable?
The 16V head will fit on any Volvo "red block" however '90+ B230 engines are recommended, and '93+ is the best solution due to them having piston squirters. B230 engines have a better rod to stroke ratio than their older brother, the B23 making the B230 more desirable. This, however is not a big deal. If you already have a B23, might as well use it rather than shell out for another engine. Note that the b234f crank gear will not fit the b2x due to that differnce in the I.D.. It all depends how serious you are about the project. Later B230 blocks also have piston cooling oil "squirters."


What other parts should I scoop from the B234 engine?
You will need the timing gear off the crank. The oil pump drive gear. Take the intake manifold, throttle body, and the bracket which holds it all to the block. Check to see if the Volvo sensors will work with your EMS of choice, and if so, negotiate for them too.


Will my 16V engine be powerful?
Yep. The 2.0 litre European engine came with 200hp from the factory! We can do much better than that.


Do some people dislike the 16V head? Why?
Yep. Its quite a bit more complicated than the 8V head - Most 16V haters have "Well my expert mechanic friend said such and such..." stories. One internet magazine reported that this cylinder head is inherently soft. Much of the reputation comes from owners not changing their timing belts at prescriped intervals
. The 8v eng is what is called non-interference, which means if a timing belt slips or snaps, no permante damage will occur. This is not true on the 16v, if it goes, many very expensive parts go with it. Its called an interference engine.

How much money will it cost me to build a Volvo 16V turbo engine?
If you had to pay shops to do all the work, you are looking at CA$10,000 or USD $7,000 or so. The more work you can do yourself, (or score deals on) obviously will have a large effect on these numbers.


Can I build a 16V engine with a B23 block?
Yes, the head will bolt on just fine- but if there is one available, a late B230 is a better solution. B23 blocks tend to have trouble with core shift. Piston coolers were never available in B23. B23's Rod to Stroke ratio is not as nice as B230's. B23 is also a bit heavier. Also note that there is no readily availible round tooth crank gear, adding another obsticle to this conversion.

HOW TO DO IT:

Some problems that need to be solved to make a 16V B230 engine operate:

For All
  • Cam timing belt tension adjustment
  • Adjustable cam timing gears
  • Timing Belt
  • Throttle Cable
  • Programmable engine management + injectors
  • Piston - valve clearance issues
  • Source an exhaust manifold
  • Higher flow turbocharger
  • Stronger clutch
For 200 Series
  • Distributor Hits the Thermostat Housing, on block, no space for rear mount
  • Stock B234f Intake Manifold will not fit in LHD

CAM TIMING BELT TENSION ADJUSTMENT

WHY?
On a B234F engine the cam belt tensioner is bolted to the block. On a B230FT the tensioner is bolted to the head. For this hybrid engine, neither of these parts are used leaving no cam belt tensioner. One will have to be fabricated. Because we eliminate the external oil pump, the belt length will need to be changed necessitating an alternate timing belt.


HOW?
www.ovlov.net - or DIY

Tensioner pulley AU$200 plus freight.










An alternate option is the belt and tensioner setup from a marine Volvo Penta AQ171 #855507-0. Your local marina parts desk should be able to set you up with what is needed.



Another option is a A2 VW golf tensioner, around $35
Modifications needed to fit the VW Golf MK2 GTI 16v (#051109243) tensioner is to put 3-4mm of spacers between the cyl. head and the tensioner.
the hole is slightly larger then the bolt, so a sleeve may need to be made.
The tensioning operation is though a bit more difficult with the VW
tensioner than with the original Penta one, but no hard operation.

TIMING BELT

The timing belt you need is from a Hyundai 3.0 litre if you plan to use the 16V round tooth style belt. I am unsure of the application that will suit a square tooth B230 style belt.
You will need to convert to round tooth gears. extra cam gears from the 16v, along with its crank gear, will work.

The round tooth crank gear from the b230 will not fit, so grab all the gears from the donor.

Original belt has 165 teeth, and is 22mm wide.

Round tooth: Replacement 3.0 hyundai Gates / Goodyear # T139. Cost is around $35 (autozone)
Number of Teeth (Cog) 149
Pitch (In.) .375
Pitch (mm) 9.5
Pitch Length (In.) 55.875
Pitch Length (mm) 1419
Top Width (In.) 1.00
Top Width (mm) 25

The Aq171 Penta belt is 146 teeth, and is marked for easy timing, but very expensive #855506-2, around $200 at last check.

Square tooth: for vw/ aq tensioner w/o relating or adapting of tensioner is gates t020. This belt will work for b23's where a round tooth gear set is htf. just use extra cam gears from a b230. this is norrower too, so it'll work for b23 crank gears. Be warned it will be more prone to slipping as it is narrower and square toothed. Cost is around $25 currently (partsamerica)
Number of Teeth (Cog) 146
Pitch (In.) .375
Pitch (mm) 9.5
Pitch Length (In.) 50.25
Pitch Length (mm) 1276
Top Width (In.) .750
Top Width (mm) 25


ADJUSTABLE CAM TIMING GEARS

WHY?
Generally, the ability to adjust cam timing is necessary when converting an engine over to a forced induction format. With a SOHC engine one needs to replace the camshaft as a whole to eliminate harmful positive overlap. With a DOHC format, adjustable cam gears allow the individual camshaft's timing to be changed independently to reduce overlap. Explanation on why overlap is bad for turbochargers: In a naturally aspirated engine, the engineers use the incoming air to help "push" the spent exhaust gases out by opening the intake valves and exhaust valves together. When a turbocharger is added to the picture, the pressurized intake charge can actually be blown right out of the combustion chamber, where it explodes in the exhaust manifold or turbocharger. This can lead to reduced turbo lifespan.


HOW?
You need to machine new centres to fit inside the outside "ring gear" from the original timing wheels. The new centres have slots cut into them. These centres sit inside, and on top of the original wheel, which has been drilled and threaded to accept screws. The screws clamp down to hold the gear teeth in place. This allows the cam timing to be adjusted without removing the timing belt. Eventually after dyno testing when the optimum timing settings are found, the gears can be drilled, and a dowel pressed in to prevent slippage. Here are some REALLY basic drawings:




www.mvpvolvo.com
Also Dale (245gti) sells these -6 - +6 for $60 each



more info on cam tuning

tunning diff in the b204gt (factory volvo 16vt)
Intake: retard 18 crank degrees ( 9 degrees at cam )
Exhaust: retard 6 crank degrees ( 3 degrees at cam )

THROTTLE CABLE

WHY?
A b234f intake's throttle cable connects on the other side of the tb. The needed cable is 6-7" longer then a b230f/t's.

HOW?
For 700-900, use the b234f throttle cable.
For 200, use a b21ft or diesel cable. A b234 is specific too 700-900 bodies.
Or make your own

PROGRAMMABLE EMS + INJECTORS

WHY?
You need programmable engine management because a 16V head flows better than an 8V head. This increased flow of air requires more fuel to maintain stoich. The original fuel injectors on the B230FT are not large enough to to support the increased demand for fuel, and therefore must be replaced. Replacing fuel injectors requires a programmable fuel injection system.


Above and beyond these issues which REQUIRE attention, most EMS packages include some very yummy features such as in-dash selectable traction control with off/wet/dry modes, launch control, ECU controlled boost, WOT shifting, sequential fuel injection and ignition, among other things.

HOW?
This answer is simple. Money. DTA, Haltech, Autronic, Electromotive, and MoTeC are some popular choices. The budget minded could opt for the DIY-EFI method, also.
Megasquirt is a favorite, price varies from $200-300.USD
Another option is Vems, approx $500 USD

For Fuel System Upgrades, Go Here

PISTON - VALVE CLEARANCE

WHY?
B234F engines have a compression ratio of 10:1, making these pistons useless for this application. B230FT pistons will give [in an original condition B230] a compression ratio of 8.7:1, a more reasonable number for a turbocharged engine. The problem is that 16V heads are of an interference design - meaning that the valves open "deeper" than the surface of the piston. For this reason recesses must be machined into the pistons. Some people have reported sufficient clearance without any machine work, on the order of 1/8" or so. This extra space can easily disappear if milling the head or block. Also, cutting recesses into the pistons can help compensate for increased compression ratio due to over bored cylinders, the 4-6 cc loss in combustion chamber volume, and significant head milling.


HOW?
Take your pistons to a machine shop, and explain what you need. If you don't have a B234 piston, take a plaster casting of one inside the block you pull the head from. After the plaster sets, crank the engine over a bit and it will pop out. This will give an example for the machine shop to work from.


Normal cost is around $40 each piston for this.


www.megaparts.com
www.wiseco.com

EXHAUST MANIFOLD

WHY?
Very few Volvos shipped with 16V turbo engines, but the manifolds DO exist. However, they are nearly impossible to find. Also, the factory 16V turbo manifolds were only fitted to 2.0 litre engines
#3514465 (Heat shield is 3514493), and are reported to be restrictive to flow in the upper RPM range of a 2.3+ litre motor.
Proturbo in Sweden, make these ranging from $700-1k USD, availible in steel or stainless
another plus is that this will fit a 200 or 700


Making A Custom Turbo Header Info

Another option is adapting a 8v manifold, with the right skill and tools


HOW?
If you are a welder, it is possible to tackle this one on your own with weld els. This requires a significant time investment, and some skill. Likely you will want to farm this one out to a shop that specializes in this sort of thing. Expect to pay USD $400 - $500 for this service, and maybe another hundred for ceramic coating.


www.mcmaster.com
www.burnsstainless.com

HIGHER FLOW TURBOCHARGER
WHY?
This one is self explanatory. An engine that flows more air requires a turbocharger that is capable of pumping more air. A turbo shop can assist you in selecting the correct turbo based on the amount of porting done, valve work, and the desired boost level over how much of the power band. Recently some people have been complaining about (lack of) quality from Turbonetics... So I would look elsewhere first. Last time I visited their website contained some useful turbo compressor maps.

HOW?
$$$ Fork out, baby! Talk to Herman at Cherry Turbos.
Another option is a Ford 60 trim

www.cherryturbos.on.ca
www.turbonetics.com


STRONGER CLUTCH

WHY?
A stock B230FT clutch can hardly hold on to a boosted 8V engine. Once you start upping the torque output it won't last long. You will likely find something with more holding power is required.
Clutchmasters recommends their Stage III kit, p/n k70030-01-hdtz which currently sells for approximately $500.

HOW?
The folks at MVP can help you out here.


www.mvpvolvo.com
www.clutchmasters.com
www.centerforce.com


200 SERIES ISSUES

DISTRIBUTOR

Why?
The Block mounted dizzy on 200's will not clear the casting on a 16v head for the thermostat.



The 200 series cars do not have the space for a rear of head mounted dizzy either.

How?

Option #1, edis adapted, (MS - EDIS info)
cut inner escort damper, hollow out.



Note
: This will requre you to use the narrower b230 aux gear for clearance.

The VR sensor can be easily mount to the oil pan mounts (use 2 exhuast studs for ease)
using a piece a "L" scrap metal. then just drilling in the proper places. Just set the edis wheel off accordingly.

Firing order for a edis equiped escort is the same as a redblock, 1-3-4-2

Option #2
Shorten and reweld the block mounted dizzy. it'll need to be shortened all the way down (around 1-2").

INTAKE

Why?
The intake manifold on LHD cars will interfer with the master cylinder. Even on RHD its tight, but do-able.

How?
Option #1, a b204gt intake manifold. Instead of pointing towards the fender, it points in between there and the ground the ground, eliminating the clearence issues. A side benefit, the b234 intake are said to have poor #1 and #4 flow, not with this intake. These are $250 list (if your dealer will order it). Be advised that they also use a different throttle linkage system and fuel rail, so add these in, or get to be friends w/ someone overseas.
On a side note, none of the bolt hole come tapped, so pick up a m6 tap if you dont have one.



BUILD SPECS

Engine Block
, B230 A, K, E, ET, F, FT Will work, 1993+ FT is preferable.

How to identify the engine you have:

YV1DX884XF1000000

81 = B 230 A
83 = B 230 K
84 = B 230 E
86 = B 230 ET
87 = B 230 FT
88 = B 230 F


Standard bore C 3.7795 - 3.7799
Standard bore D 3.7799 - 3.7803
Standard bore E 3.7803 - 3.7807
Standard bore G 3.7811 - 3.7815
Oversize 1 3.7914
Oversize 2 3.8031


Pistons

Height = 2.5472
Weight = 540 +/- 7 g


Piston running clearance = 0.0004 - 0.0012
Axial clearance, con rod to piston = 0.001 - 0.018




KH 39,9
Valve Relief (ex)
2,88
Valve Relief
(in)
3,89
MT 3,1
AA 25
GL 64,9

23
x
65
R 1,75 Cr
NM 1,75
SSF 3,5
96,01 038 23 00
96 V 24
[038 20]


Piston Rings

Upper comp Lower comp Oil scraper
Height 0.0681 - 0.0685 0.0681 - 0.0685 0.1368 - 0.1374
Clearance in piston groove w/ ring on piston 0.0024 - 0.0036 0.0016 - 0.0028 0.0012 - 0.0025
Ring gap, measured in cylinder 0.012 - 0.022 0.012 - 0.022 0.012 - 0.024


Piston Pin

Fit, in connecting rod = light thumb pressure (close running fit)
Fit, in piston = thumb pressure (push fit)
Diameter, standard = 0.9055
Diameter, oversize = 0.9075
Length = 2.36


Crankshaft

Max out of true = 0.01
Axial clearance = 0.0032 - 0.0106
Radial clearance (mains) = 0.0009 - 0.0028
Crank pin radial clearance (rods) = 0.009 - 0.0026


Main bearing journals

Out of round, max = 0.00016
Taper, max = 0.00016
Diameter
standard = 2.4803
undersize 1 = 2.4705
undersize 2 = 2.4606
Bearing seat width = 1.3976


Connecting rod bearings

Out of round, max = 0.00016
Taper, max = 0.00016
Diameter
standard = 1.9285 - 1.9293
undersize 1 = 1.9187 - 1.9203
undersize 2 = 1.9088 - 1.9096
Bearing recess width = 0.94 - 1.03


If your connecting rod bearings are within spec, and not to be replaced, they may be colour coded. If they are, the blue bearing goes in the connecting rod, and the red bearing goes in the cap. All replacement bearings are yellow, and can go either way.

Connecting rods

Axial clearance at crank = 0.001 - 0.018
Length, centre to centre = 5.98 (152 mm)
Max weight deviation between rods in same engine = 20g
*Most balancing shops balance to less than 0.02g between rods, recommended


Oil pump

Axial clearance = 0.008 - 0.0047
Radial clearance (excluding bearing clearance) = 0.008 - 0.0035
Backlash (excluding bearing clearance) = 0.006 - 0.014
Bearing clearance
drive shaft = 0.0013 - 0.0280
idling shaft = 0.0006 - 0.0017


Relief valve spring length under different loads: (length in, load lbs)
1.54, 0
1.034, 10 - 12
0.83, 13.6 - 17.2

Firing Order
1-3-4-2
Tightening torques (ft lbs)

Main bearings = 80
Connecting rod bolts (can be re-used if length does not exceed 2.185)
first stage = 14
second stage = angle tighten 90˚
Flywheel (use new bolts) = 50
Intermediate (aux) shaft gear = 35
Crankshaft damper (pulley)
first stage = 44
second stage = angle tighten 60˚

CYLINDER HEAD
Combustion Chamber = 50cc, can be lower (as low as 47cc) if head has been resurfaced

Valve seats

Seating face, intake/exhaust = 45˚
Relief angle, upper = 15"
Relief angle, lower = 70˚
Valve seat width
intake = 1.3 - 1.9mm
exhaust = 1.7 - 2.3mm


Valves

Seating face
= 44.5˚
Minimum margin
= 1.2mm (0.047")
Tip length
= 8.99mm (.354") ex
= 9.17mm (.361") in
Diameter
= 34.5mm (1.358") intake
= 31.5mm (1.240") exhaust
Length
= 122.40mm (4.819") intake
= 122.20mm (4.811") exhaust
Stem Diameter
= 7mm
Tappets = diameter 35mm/ 1.378"
total heigth 26mm/ 1.024"
distance to top of valve, unloaded 18.40mm/ 0.724"
loaded 16.15mm/ 0.636"
Springs, length unloaded, 43.0mm/ 1.6929"
length loaded 212-252N, 37mm/ 1.45669"
length loaded 600-680N, 26.5mm/ 1.0433"

Valve stems

Valve stem height = 49.4 +/- 0.4mm
Max machining allowance = 0.4mm
Length, new valve
intake = 122.45 +/- 0.2mm
exhaust = 122.25 +/- 0.2mm
Valve stem dia, 7mm

Camshafts

Axial clearance = 0.002 - 0.0157"
Marking, lift height (marked at rear)
U
U1
268 degrees advertised duration; 19/69/64/24 = exhaust closes 19 ATDC; exhaust opens 69 BBDC; Intake closes 64 ABDC; intake opens 24 BTDC.
Volvo cam upgrade, Aq171 pz cams, the lobes on the PZ cams are 0.7mm taller from base to peak then the stock cams and about 0.5mm wider across.

Manifolds
B204gt-
Exhaust part number
3514465 (Heat shield is 3514493), set up for t3. very long #1 runner, good upto 400ish hp.
Intake part number 3514699
B234f-
Early
Intake, 3501653 For 67mm throttle housing.
3514519 REPL 1PCS 3514520-0 For 57mm throttle housing.
Late (91+)
Intake, 3514520

Throttle Body Numbers

1990 b234F

3501602 O.DIA 67mm
9135152 O.DIA 57mm

(9135616) (3501939)

1990 B204FT/GT

9135152(9135616) (3501939)

1991 & 1992 B234F/G

9135616 REPL 1 PCS 9135152-8
(3501939)



Tightening Torques

Head bolt tightening sequence:
10 6 2 4 8 9 5 1 3 7

FRONT


Stages (ft lb)
1 = 15
2 = 30
3 = angle tighten 115˚


Spark plugs = 18
Camshaft sprockets = 37
Timing belt idlers = 18
Camshaft bearing caps = 15
Camshaft carrier = 15
crankshaft/ flywheel
8 on 2.9865 boltcircle
1.306 center flexplate hole
.406 bolt holes

a work in progress, building on Ryan Wynotts excellent base. fyi, he's no longer hosting it, so i posted it.
Thanks to Yama for the pics.
feel free to post corrections/ stuff to add.

-Aaron
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Last edited by n xntrx volvo; 06-09-2007 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 01-17-2005, 10:40 AM   #3
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Hey how about part numbers for things like the N/A 850 throttle body or 960 as they are great upgrades.
James
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:24 AM   #4
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I could snap some pictures of a b204ft intake. Just need an administrator to give me file attachment capabilities.
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Old 01-17-2005, 11:53 AM   #5
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Abso-friggin'-lootley beautyful. Haven't read it all just yet so I can't verify/argue anything, but SFSG.

Has anyone tried the B234 intake on a 240 equippped with a large diameter single-diaphragm booster, rather than the smaller diameter but longer dual-diaphragm booster?
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Old 01-17-2005, 12:49 PM   #6
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Default 16V on 8v block

i heard this is possible is that true?? so if it is all i have to do is get a 16v head and then intake,exhaust,and computer. I would be mating the Dohc head with my b21ft so yeah just want to know thanks

also how much is a good price to pay for 1?? thanx again

Last edited by volvo-slyder; 01-17-2005 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 01-17-2005, 01:05 PM   #7
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The 16v head has a 96mm diameter combustion chamber with small quench areas for that size piston. Using that on a 92mm bore block will impede intake flow tremendously, as there will be a huge "step" between chamber and bore. Secondly, there will be almost no quench area left for the 92mm piston, but the 16v head is a bit better in it's knock sensitivity and relies less on quench than does an 8v. Still, it's an issue that's kept me from dropping my really nice 16v head onto my really nicely rebuilt B21F.

If you could get your hands on a B204GT head, you'd probably have fewer problems in this area, as I'm pretty sure the bore is smaller on the 204GT...
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Old 01-17-2005, 01:44 PM   #8
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Wow, this is exactly what I wanted to know with my other thread. Well except the expensive part, I wanted to here that all i had to do was bolt it on, maybe drill a few holes, ohh well. Thanks for the info!
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omg...that h22zxc911se-c2 civic hatch makes 900 fwhp....




and 127 lb/ft of torque...:p
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:33 AM   #9
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oK, by the 200 series limitations listed I assume this isn't really feasible for a us 244 correct? What would I do about the intake and motor mount?
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:48 AM   #10
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oK, by the 200 series limitations listed I assume this isn't really feasible for a us 244 correct? What would I do about the intake and motor mount?
There are few 240 guys working on the 16V turbo project myself included. Because most are bolting the 16V head on a b230 or b23 block the motor mounts aren't an issue. For the intake the easiet solution is to get a b204ft intake. I'd say the exhaust manifold is the hardest most expensive piece to source as I don't believe the stock b204ft one fits.
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Old 01-18-2005, 02:29 PM   #11
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For you 240 guys...just use the b230 block and you dont have to worry about motor mounts. I am using the b234 block and its crossmember. That is only an option for us 740/940 guys.

And 240 guys. I talked to one guy who had a 240 16v turbo and he said he just had to make a remote brake fluid resevior because the mani hit the resevior. I run the slim b234 brake booster that is also used on later 940's. That may be an option. It might bring back the master cyl resevoir enough not to hit it. Just an idea.

240 guys have to worry about the distributor more than anything. The block mount wont work without significant mods and neither will the rear head mount dist. Your options are cutting down the dist or finding a shorter block mount. Or option 2 is hack up your firewall so it fits.

I have been working on the finishing touches of my 16vt and it should be done here in about a week or two.
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Old 01-18-2005, 02:34 PM   #12
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Deleted to keep the FAQ thread cleaner. guidom12345.

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Old 01-18-2005, 02:39 PM   #13
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240 guys could just use EDIS and not worry about fitting a Dizzy on the car

another intake fix is find someone that can tig aluminum and just cut down the stock manifold(maybe and inch or so)
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:05 PM   #14
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240 guys could just use EDIS and not worry about fitting a Dizzy on the car

another intake fix is find someone that can tig aluminum and just cut down the stock manifold(maybe and inch or so)
I think EDIS is the way to go. Last time I was at the pic and pull there was around 30 escorts with the Ford EDIS. Only problem is they use a 36 hole crank sensor vs 60 for the Volvo so that needs to be adressed.

I don't understand why everone once to mess with that nasty b234 intake. For $210 a got a new b204 intake shipped to my door and I don't have to deal with that toxic intake sludge. IMHO a much better design.
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Old 01-18-2005, 03:18 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by yama
I think EDIS is the way to go. Last time I was at the pic and pull there was around 30 escorts with the Ford EDIS. Only problem is they use a 36 hole crank sensor vs 60 for the Volvo so that needs to be adressed.

u can attach it to the front of the motor on the b230 and make a bracket for the sensor, just takes a little custom work but isn't that hard
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Old 01-18-2005, 06:34 PM   #16
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u can attach it to the front of the motor on the b230 and make a bracket for the sensor, just takes a little custom work but isn't that hard
Yeah, I guess I'm not seeing something here. If I'm going to use a b230 block for instance, why can't I just keep the dizzy up front where it belongs on the 240? Is the 16v head in the way for that location? Or is it the intake mani that bumps into it in that local. If it's the intake manifold does the 204v intake mani solve the problem?

Just interested because an engine build is in my near future and I'd hate to do an 8v if a 16v with more power isn't an unreasonable option.
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Old 01-18-2005, 06:51 PM   #17
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:29 PM   #18
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?

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Old 01-19-2005, 01:20 AM   #19
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pics courtesy of uber box's project. i'll post everything once done.
Yeah, an edis how to would be rad too,

you know for complete morons like myself who can't figure anything out even with a writeup.
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Old 02-16-2005, 01:43 AM   #20
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Old 02-16-2005, 02:20 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Yeah, an edis how to would be rad too,

you know for complete morons like myself who can't figure anything out even with a writeup.
me too
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Old 02-26-2005, 01:58 PM   #22
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Old 02-27-2005, 06:42 PM   #23
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Yeah, an edis how to would be rad too,

you know for complete morons like myself who can't figure anything out even with a writeup.
If anybody would like to make a thread about what EDIS is and how it works and what us 240 guys need in order to get it done in LAYMANS terms that would be great....

I would love to be like, "yeah man, EDIS is the shizznizzle" but I have no idea what the hell it is. And if it IS so easy than explain to me what I should know.

I have already hacked the firewall and I have already tried to grind down some of the water neck on the cylinder head before I remembered I was using a 700 block and the intermediate shaft doesn't have any gears for the dizzy anyway...LOL. If this 'EDIS' thing is so easy than I have to know about it. I have 3 weeks to get my engine running before I bring it down to get the new headeer built and I have EASY access to one of the best junkyards in my area as well. YOUR COOPERATION WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED....
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Old 02-27-2005, 08:10 PM   #24
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for edis info check the megajolt site
and the ms extra site
it does a good job explaining edis
unfort i cant reveil too much info as part of an agreement with john until his car is shown. for now just read that info on those site then re-read the info i posted. look carefully at the pics. if you hit a bump, hit me up on aim.
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Old 03-01-2005, 02:20 PM   #25
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Yahtzee!!
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