home register FAQ memberlist calendar

Go Back   Turbobricks Forums > Mechanical > performance & modifications

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2016, 04:25 PM   #1
okoye
Board Member
 
okoye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: west hartford, ct
Default b204ft tuning???

Are there any mods I can do without causing too many problems? I have a 50 trim that I'd love to throw at the car. Obviously with bigger injectors and maybe get rid of the m46 transmission.

I've seen through my searches and tons of reading that the Volvo 960 b204ft has a tcu that controls boost levels. I'm hoping to make the best use of this engine.
__________________
1991 Volvo 940se sedan m90 swapped, 17x10 oz fittistars, Bilsteins.
1994 Volvo 960 turbo b204ft m46

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond View Post
no one saw me with my little umbrella and sandpaper though.
okoye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2016, 06:20 PM   #2
Lord_Athlon
Chuckie Blows
 
Lord_Athlon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Hillary's Emails
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by okoye View Post
Are there any mods I can do without causing too many problems? I have a 50 trim that I'd love to throw at the car. Obviously with bigger injectors and maybe get rid of the m46 transmission.

I've seen through my searches and tons of reading that the Volvo 960 b204ft has a tcu that controls boost levels. I'm hoping to make the best use of this engine.
Either go all out, or leave it stockish. No point in throwing an eBay turbo at it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by RvolvoR View Post
simple...just throw the redblock in the trash and install, well, almost anything modern

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlard View Post
Yet Asher here went with...
Lord_Athlon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2016, 06:30 PM   #3
Janspeed
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Default

my brother has a B204GT (no cat) , i seem to remember that he tweeked the electronics inside that TCU so it would allow higher boost. 0.8 bar i believe he said.
That TCU uses EGT sensor input. I hope your sensor is in good condition because these sensors are expensive and might be unobtanium by now.
He also installed an IPD boost solenoid valve which is controlled by the TCU. It seems to allow the turbo to spool up faster.
We also swapped the gbox for an M90, this makes the car drive a lot more refined.

a larger turbo would make the car more powerful up top but even in stock setup boost comes in kinda late. Maybe you could try NOS controlled by an additional management so you can bump up low rev torque by improving spool up. see video to see what i'm getting at.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjRsIVlJ0pw

Last edited by Janspeed; 11-24-2016 at 06:37 PM..
Janspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2016, 07:56 PM   #4
mark244turbo
Board Member
 
mark244turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Default

Stock turbo is good for up to 270 hp (probably more) and spools up very quick if you don't have a bad Knock- or EGT-sensor.

The M46 gearbox on the other hand......

I recommend to upgrade the gearbox before installing a larger turbo.
__________________
1994 960 B204FT, full options, leather interior.
1991 745 B204GT (Swede Sixteen VT) M90 conversion.
1986 745 B230FT, 302mm V70 brakes, camber mod. (sold)
1983 244 turbo B21FT/AW71 - leather /airconditioning
1987 244 GLT - Polaris, Strutbar, viking motorsport lower chassis brace, k-cam, gaz strut/shocks, pu-bushings
mark244turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2016, 12:26 AM   #5
okoye
Board Member
 
okoye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: west hartford, ct
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark244turbo View Post
Stock turbo is good for up to 270 hp (probably more) and spools up very quick if you don't have a bad Knock- or EGT-sensor.

The M46 gearbox on the other hand......

I recommend to upgrade the gearbox before installing a larger turbo.
So I can just turn up the boost with no issue with an mbc?
okoye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2016, 02:37 AM   #6
JerryJS8
der Junge
 
JerryJS8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Normal Saxony
Default

Leave it stock and make her shine! It would be a shame to hack it up just to make big HP. If you want to do that, then go with the typical 16v b230ft build... Replacement parts for the b204ft are hard enough to find.
__________________
- 1987 244 (hand-me-down first car)
- 1990 744 (white with red leather)
- 1992 965 (green with tan leather)
- 1990 744 16v (pegleg drift can)
- 1992 480 (Renault disaster)

- 1989 745 16v
- 1991 744 (SE) 16v Turbo

Quote:
Originally Posted by nordmaschine View Post
Try to recreate and see what happens, our crystall ball servers are currrently down.
JerryJS8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2016, 05:42 AM   #7
MadDog_945
Våga Vägra 8V
 
MadDog_945's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lower Saxony
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryJS8 View Post
Leave it stock and make her shine! It would be a shame to hack it up just to make big HP.
Thats not the TB way Junge... !
MadDog_945 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2016, 08:12 AM   #8
Janspeed
Board Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by okoye View Post
So I can just turn up the boost with no issue with an mbc?
ehh, no...

you can't just add extra air without extra matching fuel delivery and expect the engine to survive. The extra air will lean out the AFR just when it is most unwanted, at wide open throttle.

So, if you want more power, if you want to use that larger turbo and raise boost you also need to increase fuel delivery to the engine: bigger fuel pump and injectors that have a higher flowrate. (CC's/minute@ 3bar fuelpressure)
Janspeed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2016, 10:49 AM   #9
okoye
Board Member
 
okoye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: west hartford, ct
Default

I was thinking of using 550 cc injectors but I'm not sure if they will match the size of the turbo. Also does anyone know if it uses the same number of ecu pins as a regular 1994 960 6 cyl because they make a plug and play megasquirt for that generation.
okoye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2016, 08:23 AM   #10
mark244turbo
Board Member
 
mark244turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Default

You could tune the b204ft with a hi-tuning chip a.k.a. fred's chip and an mbc. This gave 270 hp and 330 Nm (@crank) with stock turbo, stock injectors and 18 psi of boost. But they are not available anymore. Fred left t-bricks and the hi-tuning website closed a year ago.

There are a few t-bricks members who have lots of experience with the b204ft fuel and timing maps. Maybe one of them can burn a custom chip for you.

If you install an mbc make sure to put it in the hose between the turbo and tcu otherwise the tcu will activate the boost valve, to lower boost to the stock boost level

Or you can do ipdowns tcu mod and raise the boost control level in the tcu. This requires replacing two resistors in the tcu.

Last edited by mark244turbo; 11-27-2016 at 10:04 AM..
mark244turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2016, 01:31 PM   #11
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Athlon View Post
Either go all out, or leave it stockish. No point in throwing an eBay turbo at it.
__________________
www.BEIGEPOWER.com
Kaplhenke Racing Facebook
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKratoz View Post
The only safe bet is Ben.©
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2016, 10:46 AM   #12
rijk
Board Member
 
rijk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Netherlands
Default Proof

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark244turbo View Post
Stock turbo is good for up to 270 hp (probably more) and spools up very quick if you don't have a bad Knock- or EGT-sensor.
What psi levels and rpm are you talking about? Please explain where you got this knowledge from. And please don't spread rumours without showing any evidence whatsoever for that statement.
__________________
The B204FT to B234FT conversion
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=182821
rijk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2016, 10:49 AM   #13
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Wait, you have a B204FT in Connecticut!? Even if you did, I am assuming it is missing a bunch of stuff like the EGT sensor, boost control solenoid, wiring, etc.
__________________
No Start Thread
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2016, 10:51 AM   #14
blkaplan
50 shades of beige
 
blkaplan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
Wait, you have a B204FT in Connecticut!? Even if you did, I am assuming it is missing a bunch of stuff like the EGT sensor, boost control solenoid, wiring, etc.
stop making assumptions, it makes you look silly.
blkaplan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2016, 10:53 AM   #15
ZVOLV
<Master Tech>
 
ZVOLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Default

Im just going with the information I see in post 1

Last edited by ZVOLV; 11-29-2016 at 11:02 AM..
ZVOLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2016, 12:33 PM   #16
JW240
All idiot, no savant
 
JW240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Netherlands, Europe
Default

Stock turbo is T3 with a 55 trim .42 A/R 60mm compressor and a .48 A/R turbine housing, Cosworth style but not as nice as the real deal.

There is some restriction in the tube to the compressor, alongside the block. Also found an air leak there, the arrangement with the O-rings can be troublesome.

I'd:
-Ditch the balance shafts and plug the feeds/drains. Airbox mod.
-Increase boost via the mod Ipdown did. Maybe a tad more wastegate tension or experiment with different actuator, worked for us.
-Better exhaust (DP is already 2.75" and good material so I would leave it alone)
-Later on, something like a T3 Cosworth with 69 mm compressor. Fits almost like stock. Or something more modern. Of course that turbo can move 350+ hp worth of air so this wont spool with everything stock in the EMS side and supporting mods like better IC (id save up for a drop in one from do88), more fuel yadda yadda. A set of H-beam rods would be nice too then considering the low price.

The B204FT/GT my brother has in his '82 760, with the above things and for now a T3 Cosworth 60 trim 60mm compressor and .63 A/R turbine, some more boost, 3" exhaust, I forgot what we did with the chip (drove around with Ostrich and changed stuff), light flywheel+M90. Goes nicely, not many extra's so its a light chassis compared to a 960. Good enough to annoy some good modern cars. 80-120 in 3.5-ish seconds.
Next summer GT3071R so more better next year.
JW240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 12:59 PM   #17
mark244turbo
Board Member
 
mark244turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rijk View Post
What psi levels and rpm are you talking about? Please explain where you got this knowledge from. And please don't spread rumours without showing any evidence whatsoever for that statement.
OK then, here are the links to the rumour-pages:

Fred' chips/chipping faq: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=84817

Hi-tuning: http://hi-tuning.com/item_list.php?m...t=item&lang=se

Ipdown's TCU mod: TCU resistor mod was explained here: http://linuxfan.org/~ipdown/mybrick.org/tcu_mod/

The last two are no longer available.
mark244turbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2016, 05:50 PM   #18
jvlagsma
Newbie
 
jvlagsma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Netherlands
Default

http://ipdown.net/wiki/index.php/TCU
jvlagsma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 12:15 AM   #19
okoye
Board Member
 
okoye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: west hartford, ct
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZVOLV View Post
Wait, you have a B204FT in Connecticut!? Even if you did, I am assuming it is missing a bunch of stuff like the EGT sensor, boost control solenoid, wiring, etc.
It's a complete car missing nothing.
okoye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2016, 05:48 AM   #20
rijk
Board Member
 
rijk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Netherlands
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark244turbo View Post
OK then, here are the links to the rumour-pages:

Fred' chips/chipping faq: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=84817

Hi-tuning: http://hi-tuning.com/item_list.php?m...t=item&lang=se

Ipdown's TCU mod: TCU resistor mod was explained here: http://linuxfan.org/~ipdown/mybrick.org/tcu_mod/

The last two are no longer available.
Sorry, but Fred doesn't support your assumption in any way.
"The 2.0L 16v turbo engines (B204FT/GT) will gain 70HP+ and 55NM+ (40lb/ft+) of torque."
And: "Recommended setup: More than 300HP. Your imagination is setting the limit (well... your credit card and your balls will probably be the limit)."
If only this is reason for you to claim what you did then I suggest you try it first and tell us afterwards what went wrong. Clear case of wishfull thinking...
rijk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2018, 08:48 PM   #21
FezMonki
Board Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Italy
Default

Sorry for the two year necro but I thought best to ask where there is already context.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jvlagsma View Post
Is this to stop the TCU from telling the Ecu to cut early when raising using a manual boost control, or am I stupid?
__________________
Looking for S90 fat armrest.
FezMonki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2018, 02:19 PM   #22
JPS
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Friesland
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FezMonki View Post
Sorry for the two year necro but I thought best to ask where there is already context.



Is this to stop the TCU from telling the Ecu to cut early when raising using a manual boost control, or am I stupid?

i'm also a bit curious how you control boost with this mod, what you say sound right

hope here on the forum is someone that can explain, i would like to have a few more psi on my b204ft
JPS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2018, 03:18 PM   #23
jvlagsma
Newbie
 
jvlagsma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Netherlands
Default

Normal mode: The TCU has a MAP sensor (Manifold Absolute Pressure) which measures boost. It amplifies this signal and uses it to actuate the Electronic boost controller and thus limits boost to a pre-set value of 0.4 bar.
With the modification, the amplifier is tamed a bit, thus allowing more boost pressure before it reaches the same signal value as normal. The net effect is increased boost by fooling the TCU controller at its input signal. The TCU controller itself and its set point are not changed, just the MAP amplifier circuit.
It is a lot like an electronic version of a Manual boost controller
jvlagsma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2018, 03:42 PM   #24
JPS
Board Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Friesland
Default

ah oke, thanks for the info, but how do i set the boost tho were i want it? because when i do the TCU mod, i probably end up with more boost then i need.
JPS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-01-2018, 03:52 PM   #25
jvlagsma
Newbie
 
jvlagsma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Netherlands
Default

Stock is 2k2 for 0.4 bar, ipdown uses 3k for 1 bar, I used 2k7 for 0.8 bar. You need to keep both resistors the same.
jvlagsma is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:45 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.