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Old 03-19-2005, 07:02 AM   #1
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Default a one, a two, a one two three four...five...six.....

some schedule 40 bends, a couple flanges, and everything should be all good




Here's the fit in the engine bay... the red thing is the smokin hot downpipe...








Still debating if I should try getting runner 6 on the inside of the downpipe... probably will give it a try. Also need to get a turbo model or make something basic, make sure nothings gonna stick out of the hood. Ah man, now I can go to sleep...
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Old 03-19-2005, 07:06 AM   #2
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looks good. now get off the internet and go make it on your magic machines!
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Old 03-19-2005, 07:59 AM   #3
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That looks cool. Can we have it in extra tall mode so that the turbo DOES stick up out of the hood? ;)
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Old 03-19-2005, 01:23 PM   #4
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Agreed, that would be perfect upside down. ;)
Not sure about the trend of mounting turbo's so high up these days...
Sweet job though man.
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Old 03-19-2005, 02:39 PM   #5
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And where is the engine mount? I chose to go behind it, but also had to modify the top. Will your design even go that low?
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:09 PM   #6
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How does that mount to the head?? Superglue??? JB Weld??
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Old 03-19-2005, 03:52 PM   #7
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What no equal length? Sell out

What software did you use?
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Old 03-19-2005, 04:10 PM   #8
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Good point pete- the motor mount is SEVERELY intrusive and limits design options BIGTIME.
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Old 03-19-2005, 04:51 PM   #9
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its in front of the mount, but the lowest point is actually just above the mount. The turbine housing should be approximately next to the coolant bottle. I need to make a decent model of my 60/63 though, I figure the flange may need to move out and down.



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Old 03-20-2005, 04:23 PM   #10
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Personally I think that engine is going to be a little canned up on a 60/63, I'd consider a Holset or small T4 for it. Atleast try to model for a bigger turbo if possible so you do have an upgrade path in the future. Also, I'd try to get #6 inboard so fitting the downpipe isn't so hard. Think about trying to remove the downpipe or slipping it on and off the studs if its right in there. Plus, the risk of stuff shifting and getting some annoying rattles and all, just doesn't seem good. Great work though, can't wait to see it.

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Old 03-20-2005, 05:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mAydAy
Personally I think that engine is going to be a little canned up on a 60/63, I'd consider a Holset or small T4 for it. Atleast try to model for a bigger turbo if possible so you do have an upgrade path in the future. Also, I'd try to get #6 inboard so fitting the downpipe isn't so hard. Think about trying to remove the downpipe or slipping it on and off the studs if its right in there. Plus, the risk of stuff shifting and getting some annoying rattles and all, just doesn't seem good. Great work though, can't wait to see it.

-Andy
ya, i am thinking i can get the #6 inboard easily enough. ill give it a try. as far as the turbo, well, with 10.7:1 cr and supposedly weak conrods, i dont think ill really be runnign enough boost to get into the efficeincy range of a bigger turbo. Once I get some more cash though (way in the future eh?), its gonna get huge rods, huge forged slugs, and a huge turbo.
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Old 03-20-2005, 06:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the poi
ya, i am thinking i can get the #6 inboard easily enough. ill give it a try. as far as the turbo, well, with 10.7:1 cr and supposedly weak conrods, i dont think ill really be runnign enough boost to get into the efficeincy range of a bigger turbo. Once I get some more cash though (way in the future eh?), its gonna get huge rods, huge forged slugs, and a huge turbo.
Compressor wise, yes. Exhaust wise, ehhhhhhhh. I just wonder about trying to flow that much through a 60/63, it won't comfortably. The other reason I was suggesting larger is to prevent hard hitting low RPM boost, the downfall of almost all whiteblocks. Its not airflow on most 850's that bends rods, is the slamming of boost at low RPM's, hence a larger turbo, even if the compressor is out of its efficiency range, is a bit better. Best would be a big turbo and a small compressor, a la t4/t3 I've seen where a T4 turbine is mated to a T3 compressor and housing, for high flow low blow.

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Old 05-17-2005, 02:01 AM   #13
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aHA!

Now with better #6 positioning and an honest to god collector! Making the colelctor with nothing but some diagrams, a bandsaw, and the welder should be no sweat at all! Still need to get the header flange right... once I get those measurements, I can smooth out all the piping (meaning, don't mind the gaps).


But anyway:



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Old 05-17-2005, 08:32 AM   #14
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that looks nice. What kind of welder are you going to use? A TIG would be best, assuming you use stainless steel. MIG would do to, Stick would be very difficult..
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Old 05-17-2005, 08:45 AM   #15
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do you want a GT42 when it doesnt spool at all on my engine??........ :-p
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Old 05-17-2005, 12:10 PM   #16
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It'll be mild steel, and I'll throw it togheter wiht a MIG (dont got a TIG ). It should be okay for my first manifold, mebbe ill improve upon it sometime later wiht SS and some TIG welds

grizly... thats like a 900hp turbo....gimme some time to get new rods and pistons and then sure!
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Old 05-17-2005, 01:20 PM   #17
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how much does it really cost to weld up your own header? and where can you get the pipe cheap?
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Old 05-17-2005, 02:31 PM   #18
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Try the smaller centerline radius weld el for tight configurations. It is slightly more expensive, but it helped me out. www.mcmaster.com p/n 43425K157 for the 1 1/2" size.

You can get the pipe anywhere. It is just regular schedule 40 pipe.
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Old 05-17-2005, 07:22 PM   #19
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u know i was thinking about this manifold and if its not going to be equal length or anything exotic you might be just as well making a generously large log manifold. u can make power with a log manifold. and it would be REALLY easy to fab up. when you think about the pre 90 manifolds they are pretty much log manifolds. and people think the 90+ mani is worth 10 hp but when the 90+ mani came out volvo also changed the injection system to a more agressive timing map and put larger diameter pullies on the engine accessories. and changed the turbo and later put on an electric fan. and the HP only jumped from 160 to 168 or something.

and the +10 hp probably really comes from porting the 90+ manifold which everyone does when the put one on a pre 90 car.

i wonder what a ported pre 90 manifold would produce.

so in summary if you want to go fast. a log will probalby do just fine. and be alot easyer. if you want to look good doing it and are really after every last possible horsepower. by all means carry on.

i wonder what the difference is between people loving log intake manifolds and hating log exhaust manifolds?

now for my own solidworks drawing. o the simplicity of it all.

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Old 06-09-2005, 06:11 AM   #20
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Alrighty. finnaly got my dimensions of the flange, so i coudl finalize the design. now... technically, its a matter of following teh directions--cutting each bend to the right angle and alinging it at the right offset on the next piece. as far as welding strategies go, i'll do the primaries first, one at a time, then attach them to the collector and flange simultaneously. I'll build the colelctor off the ends of the primaries when everythings just tacked on. I designed the collector such that only straight pipe is used in it... I think my wallet will appreciate when I'm on my fourth or fifth attempt









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Old 06-09-2005, 06:29 AM   #21
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haha! nice Someone at mcmaster is sending there kids to college with that many elbows

One tip for getting all the angles down right. I would print out a sheet with various angles on it, and then laminate it. This will allow you to kinda work on the fly and know how close you are as you are tweaking the bits as they are going into place. Anything helps when you are needing to be that exact.

Do you have a source for the turbo flange or head flange yet? The guy I am getting all of my stuff through charges cost, and nothing more
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Old 06-09-2005, 06:56 AM   #22
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all the angles are differnt (and to hopefulyl to one degree tolerance ) I'm jsut going to make a metal frame to place the bend in, and then I'll use a long straight edge to mark off the angle to cut. the t3 flagne will be yoinked off ebay, the head flange will be made from flat steel, lotsa cutting oil, as many hole saws as I'm going to chew through, a drill press, and tears. oughta work.
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Old 06-09-2005, 07:03 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the poi
all the angles are differnt (and to hopefulyl to one degree tolerance ) I'm jsut going to make a metal frame to place the bend in, and then I'll use a long straight edge to mark off the angle to cut. the t3 flagne will be yoinked off ebay, the head flange will be made from flat steel, lotsa cutting oil, as many hole saws as I'm going to chew through, a drill press, and tears. oughta work.
I would imagine it would cost you more in bits than it would to get one laser cut from cold rolled steel Only thing you would need to do is provide a cad file to work with. To give you an idea of price, the t3 flange is costing me about 3.60, and the b230 exhaust flange about 16. I would imagine the 6 cyl one costing about 20-30% more as it is a tad longer.
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Old 06-09-2005, 09:48 AM   #24
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[QUOTE=the poi]Alrighty. finnaly got my dimensions of the flange, so i coudl finalize the design. now... technically, its a matter of following teh directions--cutting each bend to the right angle and alinging it at the right offset on the next piece. as far as welding strategies go, i'll do the primaries first, one at a time, then attach them to the collector and flange simultaneously. I'll build the colelctor off the ends of the primaries when everythings just tacked on. I designed the collector such that only straight pipe is used in it... I think my wallet will appreciate when I'm on my fourth or fifth attempt

/QUOTE]

Tack everything together as one. Very small mismatches in the orientation of each weld-el on the primaries will lead to it not coming together at the collector. Place the manifold flange and turbo flange in space on a jig and match everything to that. Good luck!
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Old 06-11-2005, 11:59 PM   #25
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Nice manifold, but did you guys noticed there is quite a few ppl putting the turbo in the rear instead. By theory, it will still work, not sure if it's good enough.........but for sure there will be no space issues.............
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