T5 swap, all you need to know

[stick940T]

Shane, you're more than welcome to provide your actual experience as opposed to speculation!

I'm very interested in your shifter extension, looking forward to pictures!

Nice job!!

[Boris740]

Originally Posted by stick940T

well, you might not have to chop the bellhousing:

the -93 mustang T5 that people are using has the shortest of the 3 ford t5 input shaft lengths:

http://www.therangerstation.com/T5ID.htm

So maybe, just maybe one of the other input shafts would work. Just a thought.

I am half way into the conversion and have trouble deciding which T5 has the best gear ratios. I am putting it into a 740. I will eventually have over 300 RWHP

[stick940T]

Boris, I think ratios are kind of a problem.

anything OEM off of a V8 car has too big of a space between 4th and 5th (IMHO).

camaro V6 WC have a pretty low 1st gear, and a fairly high 5th.

Z ratios are nice from a 280ZX (best, I think) or 300ZX, but they are not world class versions, so they ain't as strong.

these ratios are listed on TTC's site http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English/products/T-5.asp, which I think are nice:

3.35 1.99 1.33 1.00 0.83

but the trans they are listed for is only rated 230lb-ft :(

you can buy a 3550 with about the same ratios, but then you're talking bucks. The adapter stuff isn't the same either. Also, most of the used 3550s are from mustangs, so they have the super overdrive 5th like the OEM v8 T5s.

these are the reasons why I'm leaning more towards a supra trans lately, like Hal did. I found some dynos of a guy that had a w58 (in a supra) that held 460rwhp for 6 months before breaking. w58 weighs the same as a T5, ~75lb.

But now that I think about it, the mustang SVO has nice ratios, and I think they were WC around 85-86. might be hard to find one, though. The thunderbird turbo coupe one is similar but the first gear is too low.

Good luck!

[Mach375]

Was at the JY the other day. Poking my head into various vehicles looking for a shifter boot I came across what looked like a T5 in an Isuzu Rodeo . '92 Isuzu Rodeo with V6, the tranny looked exactly like a T5 with a very short tailhousing. Anyone feel like looking up the HP/torque handling, and the gear ratios for this?

[stick940T]

Shane, they did use a T5 in the rodeo, but the torque spec is only 230lb-ft. Ratios are ok, first is on the low side. The shifter is about 50mm forward of where it is on the mustang. details here:

http://www.tremec.com.mx/catalogo/Fi...as/Fic-T5e.pdf

interestingly, the application chart shows "semi-remote" applications with the shifter about 100mm further back than a mustang. Could this be somehow useful to us 7/9ers? torque specs and gear ratios are nothing special, but perhaps the housing is? I am guessing this setup is for a commercial truck or something.

Also, I want to add a little more information to a conjecture that I made before.

I postulated about building a "hybrid" T5 using a ford center section and a camaro v6 WC 5th gear and output shaft. I have not done this, but I think it is possible. Specifically, the changing of 5th gear is possible because the T5 has an interchangeable 5th gear. In other transmissions/gears, "half" of the gear may be part of the layshaft casting, and therefore not be changeable. If you don't understand, read the manual transmission article on howstuffworks.com

For example, porsche transmissions like the G50 and 915 allow all gears to be changed separately (iirc), but most transmissions do not have this capability.

For 240s, the best (and proven, though not in a volvo (wouldn't matter)) way to "fix" the high Mustang V8 T5 fifth (if you feel this is a problem) is to go with a Ford Motorsport .80 fifth driven and drive gearset, which is a little under $200 from hanlon motorsports:

http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/cat...y=transmission

pretty expensive, I guess this wouldn't be worth it for everybody, you'd have to take the trans partially apart as well, of course.

[iadr]

Originally Posted by dbarton

Also, the NAPA speedo cable listed in this article, part number 48403, does not correspond to any speedo cable NAPA offers.
Dave B.

From when I used to work for Napa, I recognize that as a United Brake Products part number. I think it may have been discontinued by fact of them changing speedo cable suppliers, but it may still be available somewhere once you know the brand

[dbarton]

I have already constructed a speedo cable using a new Volvo cable and grafting on the Ford T5 speedo gear housing end section. I got the T5 end from a junked mustang at a pick-a-part.



Dave B.

[VikingTh0r]

Thats is pretty sweet looking.

[n xntrx volvo]

can the prv guys use this?
http://eshop.advanceadapters.com/com...=1079928727886

[noah244ti]

Just finished my t5 swap and though you guys might like to see how it went....


My original plan was to have the front section shortened of my m46 driveshaft too, but once I noticed that all my U joints and center support bushing were shot I opted for the one piece. I jot my measurements from Doug (thanks) which were 66 3/8" (have to double check) center to center of the yokes and 3" diameter...
No rubbing whatsoever in the DL tunnel. I know Doug was having some problems with his scraping because his rearend was a little to one side before he adjusted his panhard rod.




1/4" thick plate steel welded to the bottom of the crossmember. Couldn't have been easier.




I'm using the stock ford tranny mount. Works great and helps keep the engine from rocking as much as it did with the stock tranny mount.
Move the crossmember to the farthest back setting and it all lines up perfectly!




I gotta say. the gear ratios on this tranny are absolutly perfect! (I have the 3.35 1st model)
and was a bit worried about the gearing being quite a bit higher than my M46, not a problem at all and the throws on my short shifter are awesome!

[stylngle2003]

sick sick sick sick noah!
thats soo cool....what clutch are you running with that setup?
looks great, bet its a hell of a lot of fun!

[Mach375]

Small update here on the shifter positioning, now that I have my trim pieces put back in.

The cross-bar for the center section (where the pull-out ashtray is, in front of the fuse panel) can't be used, which means the plastic portion of the L-shaped center piece that connects to that bar via a funky C-clip needs to be removed also. The pull-out fold-down ashtray also can't be used, at least not as it is. Though I haven't done it yet, it may be quite easy to cut out the back of the "drawer" section of the ashtray, leaving just the front panel, and then superglue it shut. Yes, I just described making a blank panel to cover the ashtray hole. If you have a section of plastic sitting around you want to cut up to fit in the hole, that is essentially what I'm suggesting. I'm just describing a way that would recycle the original part, therby making it look stock. And an added bonus to this is you now have a switch panel.
The fuse panel needs to be moved up, and as far forward (back) as possible, as well. To do this, I removed the plastic fuse panel mounting bracket, and elongated the single forward-most hole (the only one that isn't elongated). I elongated it toward the rear, BTW. I then took a piece of scrap wood, about 3/8" thick, and sandwiched that between the panel mounting bracket and metal mounting location on the transmission tunnel. Speaking of that location....
Yes, you will need to cut a bit of body panel out of the transmission tunnel to fit the shifter (Ford T5 here). You will be removing a section up to the point where the platstic fuse panel mounting bracket metal mounting location (did I lose you yet?) bends upward to the screw holes (seriously, at this point you're so confused that the only way you're going to make sense of this is to go out and actually look at what I'm describing). You will be cutting into the flattened part of the metal mounting location, but only up to the first bend.
At this point, you should notice you have about 1/16" clearance between the fuse panel and the shifter extension bar. Which is in my opinion just right.

I will eventually get some pics of everything. Just as soon as I get a decent digi-cam with zoom.

BTW- as of this posting, my motor is flat broken. Something inside went CLANK on the freeway, and now I have a Swedish paperweight. I'll get it back to running, though.

[neurot75]

that is the coolest shift knob ive ever seen. looks custom made

[noah244ti]

Originally Posted by neurot75

that is the coolest shift knob ive ever seen. looks custom made

Thanks! Actually its just a 25 dollar cheapy, works great though!

I've only had it in for a few days now but I gotta say, this is one of the biggest improvements I've made on my car. I'd do it agian just for the feeling of the shifts and running it through the gears.

The T5 tranny mount I am using is alot stiffer than my m46 one. I noticed that the shifter doesn't rock from side to side when I turn the car over or when I punch the gas (my motor mounts werent bad either).
It definatly holds the engine down better. A huge difference. Who woulda thought? : )

[Hank Scorpio]

Thats what I've been saying!

I'll tell you right now, you'll probably get 2 or 3 times the life span out of your mounts ;)

[Turborg]

I am getting real close to a B23ft plus T5z swap into my 82 242ti. The machine shop said my motor would be done Monday. I saw earlier in the thread that 66 3/8" was the length on the shaft. As many people seem to be doing the swap, is this the measurement everybody is coming up with? I know I should just wait til its together, but I could save a couple of days down time if I was confident in this measurement. Also I have questions about the slip yoke. A couple of tranny shops have told me that I would have to get it from Ford. JTR deals mostly with chevies but recommends changing to a larger U-joint than the stock Volvo, and changing the flange on the rear end to accept this heavier more common U-joint. Would appreciate any advice on the drive shaft issues....Thanks

[noah244ti]

I wouldn't worry too much about the volvo u joint. Thats what doug and I are using, along with the flange on the rear end. I took measurements of Dougs DL last time I was up there because I too, didn't want to have my car down for those extra few days. I was definatly worried about it not being the correct length, it came out perfectly though! With about 1/2" of excess of the slip yoke sticking out (for suspension movement).
I need to check my reciept from the DL shop before I go say it was exactly 66 3/8" (thats just what pops into my head) but its in my friends car, so next time I see him..... : )

[ptouch20]

awesome info everyone...it's like the bible of t5 swaps...careful with your 3rd gears, i have a couple laying around the shop with no teeth left on them... Anyone know how many splines are on the turbocoupe version's input shaft? Does all the info here apply? I have access to a low mileage turbocoupe t5. thanks, and good work.
-pete

[MattP]

Here is an interesting gear set for those DIY'ers.

http://www.5speeds.com/t5/gforce.html

[Turborg]

I was checking with drive train shops today and got some disturbing info from two of them. They tell me that the critical speed(speed at which a drive shaft may fail if exceeded) for a 66 inch driveshaft is right at 4000 rpms. I checked some sources on the net and they seem to agree. I wondered if anyone has any other info as I am ready to get the driveshaft for my conversion. In this area it is a lot cheaper to shorten the front shaft. I may go that route with a heftier carrier bearing support.

[noah244ti]

CORRECTION! CORRECTION! CORRECTION!

The driveshaft on my 240 is not 66 inches long...
It is in fact 46 3/8" from center to center of U joint in a 3" diameter.
I dont know how 66" poped into my head when I was posting about my swap (I told you dont trust me :0 )... But yes, just climed out from under the car with a measuring tape.

I've had no problems with my driveshaft. I've been up to about 6k in 1-3 and just cruised at about 110 last night in 5th. No wierd vibrations and I'm sure if you checked the critical speed of a ** 46 3/8" X 3" **DS... Should be much higher than what you came up with for the 66 incher : )

[Turborg]

Noah, thanks for the correction!! The calculator says anything under 9000 RPM is fine. Sorry about any confusion my posts caused.

[Turborg]

Here is how the setup I got for John at vintage performance looks. I will report back how it works when I have it installed. http://www.pbase.com/image/27991091. http://www.pbase.com/image/27991129.

[Turborg]

When installing the Volvo bellhousing to the Vintage Performance adapter, you need to check that the bolts that are in the front bearing retainer allow the bellhousing to bolt up flush. At least three of us have had to machine the bolt heads so they do not stick out past the adapter.

[pengee]

I thought I would post this to see if anyone can give me some insight into what is going on right now with my setup.

A little over a month ago I did the T5 swap into my 240. Because of work and some other things I needed to have the car done asap. So, I did the swap over two nights in the middle of the week. When I had it all apart I did not look very thoroughly at the flywheel and decided that I would stick it back in without resurfacing. Same went for the pressure plate (horrible idea I know). I would not have normally done this but the car had to be running again in two days if only temporarily.
Anyways, I got the driveshaft made and the car ran great once I adjusted the clutch. I drove it for probably a few weeks and the clutch got very bad chatter as expected. So, at this point I put the car down to redo everything and take the time needed. I also did up a mount similar to what Noah has and I must say it is much better then the design I did before that.
I got the fiber-carbon disk, and the clutchnet pressure plate and had my flywheel resurfaced and the pressure plate balanced with it. Everything is back together and I adjusted the clutch to where it should be sitting. Could not get the car in gear as the pressure plate was not disengaging the clutch. After a million different adjustments and notching the bellhousing I can adjust it in so far that the fork hit the pressure plate?!?! Still with it that far in it was engaged.
I talked with some people that said a flywheel can be machined down so many times / so far that it will cause this to happen. However, this is like an inch more travel than before after only the one resurfacing.
Everything is in and done right as I have taken it apart and looked over everything many times.
Should I just get a new flywheel, does this sound like the problem? Should I consider modifying the throw out bearing to sit further forward? Could the spring travel be that much different from the centerforce pressure plate?
I am at a loss and will be tearing it all down again this week. Feel free to give any information / criticism.
Thanks