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Old 01-05-2003, 06:53 AM   #1
the poi
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im primarily concerned with the interior and teh suspension, as I'm planning a ford v8 swap. cept the 940, although it has better suspension options, has a 700 series interior. the later 960's and the s90 have a better interior, but the indpeendent rear susp. makes it "impossible" to upgrade. my first question is why is it so hard to get better shocks on the IRS of these cars? and, if all the shocks and springs were adjusted to the most aggressive available, would the 960/s90 be responsive enough to handle the power of a v8?
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Old 01-05-2003, 07:21 AM   #2
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Old 01-05-2003, 12:44 PM   #3
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mmm, i dunno about the part "the diffs can take the power".. I've worked my way through a couple this year.

If I were to do a v8 swap, I would find the newest non-irs 700 series car(preferably a turbo car with a blown motor.. for whatever reason people do less maintenence on them around here than the na cars), and whilst doing the swap, put in a ford 9 inch.. you can find those on car-parts for 150 bucks, and aftermarket stuff for them is plentiful and cheap, and they're supposedly damn tough.
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Old 01-05-2003, 03:50 PM   #4
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thanks for the fast help.

first question, more of just general interest: why is it so hard to get shocks that work with the IRS? i mean, why are only a sepcific model of nivomats compatible with it? and also, what are your estimates for the best shocks, the springs, and a custom bar?

and linux, how much custom work im i looking at with a ford differential? i intend on doing as much work as possible by myself, and im gonna have to buy some welding equipment anyway to get through some other things anyway. or, will a new diff require some expertise that im never gonna have?
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Old 01-05-2003, 09:53 PM   #5
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I dunno, I've looked into replacing mine with a ford unit, but no one's nice enough to gimme one so i can size things up ;)
you'd probably need to get a driveline shop to weld a new end on the driveshaft, past that, your guess would be as good as mine to what would have to be done... it can't be that hard, unless the rear end on a ford is wider/narrower than a volvo rearend
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Old 01-05-2003, 10:33 PM   #6
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kenny,
You realize that the strength of these diffs is largely dependent on ratio right?

Lemme guess, at least one of those diffs was shorter than 3.73?
If you put 4.10's in or something you'l eat them constantly. The carrier's just too small.

For a V8 conversion you'd probably be looking at a 3.31 or 3.56 which should be fine. If you chekc out that twin turbo 6 cylinder 242 in the off topic section, you'll notice he's got 460hp and is running a 1031.
You'll also notice that it's a 3.15. ;)
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Old 01-06-2003, 08:50 AM   #7
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Just a thought here, The highest powered rear drive volvos were the "90-91 780s w/B230FTI Turbo+ 3rd generation with IRS", then the advent of the front wheel turbos maxed the 780s by about 20 hp..... 780s are heavy so one must conclude some lower powered turbos would be faster all around....

Just my $ .02
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Old 01-06-2003, 01:02 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBondo
You realize that the strength of these diffs is largely dependent on ratio right?
Sorry, I've got to take you to task on that one. Differential strength hinges on one deciding factor, ring gear size.

"Ratio matters not young padawan, only ring gear yes.." - Yoda

This is the reason that the Ford 9inch is so strong, is that is possesses the larges (9") ring gear. The GM 12 bolt was a 8.75 ring. This is why the 1031 is stronger than the 1030 DANA rear.

Check out the article about beefing up a 7.625 rear at http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/te...nguprear.shtml. A lot of the info there can be applied to a Volvo rear end.
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Old 01-06-2003, 01:13 PM   #9
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Ok, Nomex boxing gloves are on.

You're only including half of the equation. The greater the ratio, the more torque the ring gear's teeth see. It makes sense.
It's a torque multiplier, and it is the LEVERAGE, ie the ratio between the ring and pinion that causes strain and breaks teeth.
Same reason transmissions last longer with short diffs, the inertia the gearbox "sees" is less because the diff is exerting a greater mechanical advantage. So the drivetrain shock is proportionally transferred to the guts of the diff.


I'm still waiting to hear what ratio's those were he broke. If at least one was not greater than 3.73 I'll eat my nomex socks.
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Old 01-06-2003, 04:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainBondo
Ok, Nomex boxing gloves are on.

You're only including half of the equation. The greater the ratio, the more torque the ring gear's teeth see. It makes sense.
It's a torque multiplier, and it is the LEVERAGE, ie the ratio between the ring and pinion that causes strain and breaks teeth.
Same reason transmissions last longer with short diffs, the inertia the gearbox "sees" is less because the diff is exerting a greater mechanical advantage. So the drivetrain shock is proportionally transferred to the guts of the diff.


I'm still waiting to hear what ratio's those were he broke. If at least one was not greater than 3.73 I'll eat my nomex socks.
LOL I'm not flaming.. just my .02 (Swahili). If the torque multiplication was such a factor, then 4.10's would break every pinion and ring out there, regardless of size. Enough HP and put some sticky enough tires on a car (thirdgen F-bodies camaros & firebirds are notorious for this) and they'll snap 7.625" 3.23 rears all day long. Going up to 4.10s won't help, but its the inherent lack of strength in a small ring that kills them.
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Old 01-06-2003, 04:24 PM   #11
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weak ring gear or not, it'll last longer when subjected to less torque.
They break becuase of a weak ring gear, but what i'm saying is that said ring gear will last longer in a taller diff.

Short 9" don't break because they are strong. Taller ones would be stronger yet, but it's generally redundant.
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Old 01-06-2003, 04:47 PM   #12
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8)



I maybe have built one or two 650hp capable rearends that were show quality to boot. But I'm not here to argue, just to say this is what I know, right or wrong. Let the gentleman take the advice at the value he paid for it.
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Old 01-06-2003, 07:26 PM   #13
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quote]LOL I'm not flaming.. just my .02 (Swahili). If the torque multiplication was such a factor, then 4.10's would break every pinion and ring out there, regardless of size. Enough HP and put some sticky enough tires on a car (thirdgen F-bodies camaros & firebirds are notorious for this) and they'll snap 7.625" 3.23 rears all day long. Going up to 4.10s won't help, but its the inherent lack of strength in a small ring that kills them.[/quote]

Third Gen F-bodies do indeed eat those rears, the 9 bolt BW w/3.27:1 ratio however seems to hold up better only on my 2nd one..........
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Old 01-06-2003, 08:29 PM   #14
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Ahem, back on the topic, I would have to reccomend a 780 as the RWD volvo of choice simply because it is so damn cool.

Sure, the saddle hide leather heated power seats are a little heavier than the manual cloth ones in the 740. Sure the roof structure is a little heavier. Sure there is an extra hundred lbs of sound insulation, and another 50 of (real) wood trim inside. That clear glass sunroof also adds some weight. And you do have to put the manual transmission in yourself, and score an '87 if you want a solid axle (one of the rarest years) .....

But it's worth it. It should be mentioned that I may have a biased opinion. :D

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Old 01-06-2003, 08:53 PM   #15
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A V8 780 would be pretty dope actually.

As far as the f body diff ratio whatever, ask any volvo performance shop what diffs come back broken.
And a 4.10 would make matters wors ein your above example. You're missing the concept. ;)
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Old 01-07-2003, 01:28 AM   #16
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Now, I would have no problm agreeing that the 780 is a nice choice, but it never came in a wagon, there's an idea to play with 8)

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Old 01-07-2003, 08:02 AM   #17
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Hey, 780GT what wheels are those on your ride?
They look Italian about 17"x7.5" 20mm offset.........
How much do they weigh?
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Old 01-07-2003, 08:59 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 780s
Hey, 780GT what wheels are those on your ride?
They look Italian about 17"x7.5" 20mm offset.........
How much do they weigh?
That car isn't mine. They are polaris 17x7, not sure about the weight. Lots of people have those rims so somone should know how much they weigh. I should have team dynamics monza 17x7 this season. I think they closely resemble the factory wheel, only 2" bigger diameter (and wider) and should look quite nice. Will depend how much the finishing touches on the 16V cost. :D

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Old 01-07-2003, 09:17 AM   #19
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My experience with diffs has taught me that:

Big/strong rearends can handle big HP regardless of ratio.

Small/weak rearends break under high HP regardless of ratio.

I understand torque multiplication, but I've never heard of anyone suggesting that switching ratios (G&P) will cause a diff to be more likely to break.

The highest load on the diff happens when the car is stationary, the revs are up and the clutch is dropped and KABOOM. I've never broken a rear on the highway.

Kenny are you talking about breaking diffs or twisting and snapping axles?
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Old 01-07-2003, 12:24 PM   #20
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I've been doing research on the rear end options as well for my '84 240 wagon.

I've decided to go with a '94-98 mustang 8.8 rear end, because it has rear disc brakes and most come with limited slip. It would need a different ring and pinion, think the highest they came with was ~3.27:1.

Or use a 1987-88 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe rear end with 3.55:1 or 3.73:1 ratios and use rear disc and traction-loc.

I've chosen to not have the axles shortened (save money), it should be about 1.5" wider, so .75" on each side centered, shouldn't be too bad. The plan is to try my hand at bodywork and fab a subtle wide-body flare, with the help of others and use a set of Cobra ultralite 17x9" wheels.
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Old 01-07-2003, 02:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the poi
the later 960's and the s90 have a better interior, but the indpeendent rear susp. makes it "impossible" to upgrade. my first question is why is it so hard to get better shocks on the IRS of these cars? and, if all the shocks and springs were adjusted to the most aggressive available, would the 960/s90 be responsive enough to handle the power of a v8?
The best RWD Volvo is a Volvo, not a bastardized ghetto blaster.

The multi-link independent rear suspension is superior to the live axle rear suspension. The possible exception to that would be in drag racing. The first thing to do is stop looking for Volvo parts to remedy the problem. The solution is to take measurements of the spring and damper dimesions and then look through a Bilstein, Koni or Sachs catalog to find a matching damper. Then talk to the tech reps and order a pair with valving matched for you application and spring rate. The spring choice will depend on ride height, ride comfort and handling. Another route is to combine the two and go with a coilover setup. It is easier and cheaper than most think.

Now for your poor choice in powerplants. Why not purchase a used B5234FT and ship over a M90H with a mulit-link 700/900 series chassis? Or go with a B6304FS and a M90H? Or a built up B280F? These are all easy engine swaps using off the shelf Volvo parts. The engine technology is superior to American Iron and will not upset the balance of the chassis. If your scared, swap in a V8. If not go for a power plant to compliment the chassis. A 700/900 series chassis with a B6304FS w/ '92 cams and a M90H will have more than enought power to hang with an E36 325. Once you upgrade the suspension you will be able to handle as well if not better, depending on the weight distribution, etc. Don't get me wrong, American Iron V8's have their place and that is in American cars.

Just something to chew on.

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Old 01-07-2003, 02:51 PM   #22
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Ok, I'm jumping back in with some observations. First, the two diffs I snapped were 4.10's. One broke at the drag strip when I was running slicks, the other exploded a few months later just driving down the road (but it'd taken serious abuse in the past few months)
I am now tooling around on a 3.54.

As for the multilink setup, that is the best way to go if you're willing to spend time (and perhaps a bit more money) researching it.

The cheap and not to bad way is still to go with th solid axle setup and ipd suspension ;)

as for the power distribution and weight offsets... using a ford 5.0 doesn't unbalance the car very much.. it doesn't weigh a whole lot more than a turbo redblock setup (or so i'm told, I could be wrong on that) and the distributor is in the front of the engine, so it can sit further back in the bay.
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Old 01-07-2003, 03:32 PM   #23
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Quoting David:
"The best RWD Volvo is a Volvo, not a bastardized ghetto blaster."




Going in the Sig!!!!

Quoting Linuxman:
"First, the two diffs I snapped were 4.10's."

As I predicted.

"I am now tooling around on a 3.54."

Exactly. Let me know when you break it.


I love muscle cars. they're friggin cool. I want a '70 Torino Cobra very badly. I would push all of my volvo off a cliff and agree to never drive one again it it meant getting one. It has a V8. I love V8s.
In V8 cars.
Putting a V8 in a Volvo is like putting a b230 in a Mustang.
Just say no man.


I haven't had a good V8 rant for a while so cut me some slack....
If you have to put a v8 in, put in in a grandpa/Buick series car since at least ehir cousins came with V8's at some point. (700/900)
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Old 01-07-2003, 04:01 PM   #24
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Eh, if you're gonna drop in a V8, at least get the air cleaner cover from a Volvo Penta Chevy V8... then you're keeping it in the family, right? 8)

As for IRS; yes, IRS is wonderful, but Volvo's execution of it is not. (Heavy subframe + weak shocks/springs + trailing arms anyway? + no LSD worth a damn)

And for the record, the 960 is the most powerful RWD Volvo, by 2hp. The 780 is just the most powerful redblock.

My $.06...
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Old 01-07-2003, 04:09 PM   #25
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You're just up set capt that 200's rust into the ground and 700's have that sleek look to them..

for the record, we all know which one of the series costed more back in the day, right? 1983 240 GLT retailed for $15000 give or take, I've got the original window sticker for my 87 760 Ti, $29,900 (cute side note, one of the "options" was a performance cross flow head... as if the 760 ti came with anything else)

So don't hate ;)
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