Tuning a 16 valve with megasquirt

[linuxman51]

So i did it, had to, motor was sitting there looking so good, it was asking for it.
No real meat here yet, that'll come over the next few days as i feel the engine out a bit, but here are my initial observations:

1)8v timing curve, even for the more efficient 531, is still way too advanced for the 16v.
2) the air fuel is bizzare, at part throttle its less than the 531, at wot its substantially higher (my 13.9:1 at 100kpa afr's turned into 18:1 at 100kpa)

3) the 740 distributor works fine :cough:guidom:cough:
4) the regular brake booster can be retained (in a 700) with some creative elbow mods (pics to come) but i'm going to get a silicone 90 to clean things up and give me more space
5) it really does sound like an alfa romeo gtv

less timing and more fuel, hmm, must be more efficient than its 8v counterpart. Seems fairly quick albeit torqueless (to 4000 rpms, havent crested that yet, probably wont for a couple days. engine has 16 miles on it as it sits). Its very smooth so far.

[blkaplan]

awesome besure to document your experience here as i am going to be setting up a 16V at the end of the summer with megasquirt so this will help me as well as others as a pseudo guide

how bout some vids and sound clips?

[the poi]

a+ work. you have the turbo mani ready? or were you going to lop the flange off your SSAC?

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by the poi

a+ work. you have the turbo mani ready? or were you going to lop the flange off your SSAC?

we'll be building a manifold from the kit i got last summer, i'm leaving the SSA unmolested for the time being as i'll be rebuilding the old motor that was in the car (it'll be chillin on a stand in case of disaster). might start on the header tomorrow.

[olov]

man, you make 16v sound so easy i want to bolt one on

good work man, keep yo head up

[linuxman51]

timing differences (this is rough stuff at the moment for the 16v map, its better but still not great)

The maps i hacked out for the 531 (pretty good, i might add, car got ~26-27mpg on the highway)


and now modfied for le 16v:




so far it revs freeer, holds power better, and doesnt ping on tip in (no accel enrichment yet, thats got a little to do with it)

[The Aspirator]

Kenny, you are THE MAN, thanks for continuing to pioneer this stuff for us. (okay, you're not the first, but I trust you the most ).

Poi, now you can one-up-him and MS your 24v! hehehehehe

[the poi]

Originally Posted by The Aspirator

Poi, now you can one-up-him and MS your 24v! hehehehehe

well now that i dont have to worry about the transmission controller any more.......

[n xntrx volvo]

hmm nice map, time to go fiddle with my fidle (b4 any of you yuk off, one word edis).
chris your triangles are getting more obtuse. looking forward to what you do w/ the coils. one day i will have cop.

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by the poi

well now that i dont have to worry about the transmission controller any more.......

dude i can't wait to see an ms'd I6 brick, thats going to be off the ****ing chain!

Slight OT: It's really cool that you guys here who know their stuff about volvos and tuning them share your information with everyone.

I've learned so much from this tbricks. And i i've already purchased my MS, which would've never happend if i had not found the turbobricks.

Cool, i'm telling you.

[linuxman51]

fiddling around with the timing today yielded these results (its really about time to throw it on the dyno and hack this **** out for real)



the short: its a lot more "streetable", it doesnt hessitate on tip in, and in a dead heat with an na 240 (e-fan mod, +10whp) i started putting a big beat down in 3rd, shifting out at 5k.

for those who havent yet driven a 16v, they (at least mine) doesnt start to really move until around 4k, so it'd be like shifting the 8v at 3k.

concentrating a little more on the air fuels, really low throttle angles down flow as well as the 531, but anything over about 1/4 throttle and the 262 waaaaaaaaaaaaaay outflows the 531.

[linuxman51]

also it should go without saying but i'll say it anyway, anything over 100kpa has *not* been touched (Accept where visible), as the car is *not* turbocharged at the moment, so dont grab them and then complain when ya blow a hole in a piston..

[740Weapon]

yep. 4000k is where they wake up.

also just two days ago i had an 8valve and a 16valve dizzy in my hands and i was saying to myself "WTF is the differance" and then i was like "nothing. WTF was guidom talking about."

good work. now dyno that biznotch and then run a 1/4 mile with it. so i atleast have something to base anything my car may or may not do off of.

[volvorsport]

yeah my 16v doesnt wake up until 4000 rpm .

Are you getting the timing from the rear mounted dizzy ? or from a block mounted one ?

[Cornercase]

I'll be MSnS'ing a 16v Turbo fairly soon. Do you think the spark maps (edit://the ones listed above) would be a good starting point, or should I try starting with the 8 valve turboo maps?

Eamon

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by volvorsport

yeah my 16v doesnt wake up until 4000 rpm .

Are you getting the timing from the rear mounted dizzy ? or from a block mounted one ?

signal from a block mounted dizzy (thats capless, its just a pickup sensor basically) and distributing the spark with a dummy head mount.

as far as turbo ignition timing, i'd take a fairly agressive 8v ms map, and divide them by half and go from there.

[The Aspirator]

Originally Posted by linuxman51

signal from a block mounted dizzy (thats capless, its just a pickup sensor basically) and distributing the spark with a dummy head mount.

That's a really cool idea.

[luke242ti]

Originally Posted by The Aspirator

That's a really cool idea.

I'll second that!

[linuxman51]

with 410 (actually its almost 500 :-O ) on the clock i've changed the bones (Clean, whew) and then tacked on another 100 miles with the limiter set at 6800, and the car scoots right along. I've clobbered the fuel maps beta testing the software jaypsc wrote, but it seems to be going fairly well after some initial learning (~200 miles worth of datalogging, yes i drive the car that much), I think I might need to pull just a smoach off the top in the upper rpms, it screams to about 5500 and then seems to labor a little bit (of course, 110mph in 4th might have something to do with that).

feels quicker than the 90 w/531 at 6psi, esp up top (lacking a little on the bottom naturally, but not too bad, it accelerates in 4th at 700 rpms, sorta, but once it gets to around 2300 it starts to roll on out, then speed becomes a problem)




Either the distributor's physical locality (fairly likely) or some bizzareness in the ms timing calculations, makes the car go nuts with more than 40 degrees of timing, esp below 3500. I think whats happening is the distro is not close enough to a pole to discharge, i might try and rotate the cap a little more, i suspect fuel econ would pick up a bit if i could get away with some more mid range timing. its riding around 18-20 city right now and i'm not sparing the engine any, its getting worked hard and put up wet (if it can't hack it NA theres no point in turbocharging it eh? )

[ZVOLV]

Originally Posted by linuxman51

3) the 740 distributor works fine :cough:guidom:cough:

Originally Posted by 740Weapon

also just two days ago i had an 8valve and a 16valve dizzy in my hands and i was saying to myself "WTF is the differance" and then i was like "nothing. WTF was guidom talking about."

The b234 dist has one of the mounting tabs in a different location. If you try to use an 8v dist on a 16v head one of the tabs will be sticking up in the air. They had different numbers on them too. There is a SLIGHT chance I am wrong on this one, but I am 99% sure I am correct.

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by guidom12345

The b234 dist has one of the mounting tabs in a different location. If you try to use an 8v dist on a 16v head one of the tabs will be sticking up in the air. They had different numbers on them too. There is a SLIGHT chance I am wrong on this one, but I am 99% sure I am correct.

that would be a negative, it goes in and looks just like the distro on the 8v, wires comin out the top.

[linuxman51]

After fiddling with jay's program, I finished the fuel map myself (for the most part, my "interstate square" needs a little fine tuning, but the rest of the map is superb)

messed with the timing map, the car doesnt feel noticeably slower with a ****load less ignition timing (well i take that back, it feels more "Volvoish with less timing, and with more timing at WOT it develops this roar at higher rpms and pulls a bit harder. the dyno will show true which of the two ideas works better), and so far, less is better everywhere else, its very un 8vish, it works with a near 8v timing map, but it works a loooot smoother and nicer with something way less agressive. map to be posted shortly.

[Cornercase]

One more thing...what kind of fuel maps are you using? Just one from your 8v?

Eamon

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by ladeadhead

One more thing...what kind of fuel maps are you using? Just one from your 8v?

Eamon

no, those were completely ass wrong.. at 100kpa (wot na) it was running 18.5:1. with the 531 it was 13.8.