MSnS or Haltech

[str8krewzn]

This has probly been talked about
but which would be best to get
for a turbo 95 b230ft in a 740?

Thanks

[medfurd]

What for? What mods do you have, what goals do you have in mind? That said, you don't need anything more than MS, and it's the cheapest option.

[str8krewzn]

Well
t3/t4
Race headers
getrag trans
Sten Parner racing head
95 b230ft BUILT
BIG injecters still choosing

[Captain Bondo]

exactly.
Mods? Budget? What version of haltech? Budget? Budget? Goals? Mods?

IMO a properly set up megasquirt with edis is good for 90% of folk building 4 bangers. And I would not choose something like an E6X over megasquirt under any circumstances. The E11 gives me serious wood, but it's overkill for a 4 banger that's doing under 7000rpm and 400hp. Beyond that point things get hairy enough that more control might be worthwhile.

But if you just won the lottery and have money floating around, or you are looking specifically for something that runs as close as possible to as smoothly as OEM , or you want 400hp+ (yeah yeah I know ms will do that, but you could almost replace all your wrenches with a crescent wrench too), or all of those, then an E11 (or actually an E8 would be fine- same feature as e11 but less fuel and spark outputs so it's cheaper) would be great.

But figure on 200-400 for megasquirt depending on what you do, plus 100-200 for tuning.
figure 1300-1800 for haltech plus 200-300 for tuning. So it's a big jump.

[PetesDustyVolvo]

*snip* sorry, i guess my 2 cents are off topic but nothing can be done about that now

oh yes there's something that can be done...

i am running haltech. it is easy to tune, very visual. i know alot of people that have megasquirt but have some problems with tuning it because they dont know how to, even with a wideband, i guess the program is hard to get used to or something. but im sure with some time it would be easy to learn the program. in my opinion, i think that the haltech is worth the extra money... both are great, just like the haltech more, just my 2 cents.

[ZVOLV]

Originally Posted by Captain Bondo

IMO a properly set up megasquirt with edis is good for 90% of folk building 4 bangers. And I would not choose something like an E6X over megasquirt under any circumstances.

Why would you chose MS over Haltech E6X?

I plan buying standalone eventually and am really considering Haltech. Seems a lot easier to tune than MS.

[ashvolvo]

Originally Posted by 2muchboost4u

i am running haltech. it is easy to tune, very visual. i know alot of people that have megasquirt but have some problems with tuning it because they dont know how to, even with a wideband, i guess the program is hard to get used to or something. but im sure with some time it would be easy to learn the program. in my opinion, i think that the haltech is worth the extra money... both are great, just like the haltech more, just my 2 cents.

I'm also seriously considering the haltech route.
Did you do your own install?

[Forg]

Kinda depends on where you are as well; and how much it costs to get hold of parts.
You need to work out everything that you need to get your hands on when doing an ECU conversion, and then decide. I started from a point where I had nothing at all apart from a K-Jet harness; if I'd have gone MS instead of MoTeC I would've saved myself about AU$400 (out of a total of probably AU$10k for the entire engine+electronics). For a difference of AU$400, the known brand, without my own bodgy "electronics welding", was definitely a better choice.

[medfurd]

Originally Posted by guidom12345

Why would you chose MS over Haltech E6X?

I plan buying standalone eventually and am really considering Haltech. Seems a lot easier to tune than MS.

How does it "seem" like that? Tuning is easy, it's the software/firmware compatibility issues that will drive you insane if you accidentally get mixed up.

[Captain Bondo]

New the E8 is only a few hundred dollars more than an E6X, and it a way better system. I just think someone considering and E6X might be better off shelling out a tiny bit more for an E8

HOWEVER, don't get me wrong, the E6X is still a nicer system, I'm just not certain it's *enough* nicer for the price. Although you can get used ones for about 500-600 bucks these days, so if you could get a used one actually, go for it. But MSnEDIS with the 12x12 maps would be really close to as good, and cheaper. At that stage the Haltech's major advantage would be the interface.

So, to be more accurate, a used E6x would be great, but in terms of buying new the E8 is a little more buck and a lot more bang, and the MS is a little less bang and a lot less buck. If that makes sense.

Edit: To anyone questioning Haltech being easier to tune. Do this:
Download megatune.
Download halwin from the Haltech website.

Just spend 20 minutes browsing through the menus and etc for each. It is night and day.
Haltech's software setup is killer.

[linuxman51]

I would hope haltech's software would be, but then they'dve had to have come a long way since the version I saw, it was horribe (dos based baby, gimmie some more o dat).

works great on my car (obviously), and tuning certain things can be tedious, but I suspect its the same way with all ems's (certain aspects of warmup, etc).
a lot of people dont bother to really really fine tune things, esp if a problem only manifests itself once in a while, so thats something to consider as well.. I've gotten picky lately so ive been spending more time on the mundane details involved in perfect warmup driving than anything else.


oh and 300 miles on 12 gallons with a 300hp volvo doesnt hurt either.

[socalsean]

Originally Posted by Forg

Kinda depends on where you are as well; and how much it costs to get hold of parts.
You need to work out everything that you need to get your hands on when doing an ECU conversion, and then decide. I started from a point where I had nothing at all apart from a K-Jet harness; if I'd have gone MS instead of MoTeC I would've saved myself about AU$400 (out of a total of probably AU$10k for the entire engine+electronics). For a difference of AU$400, the known brand, without my own bodgy "electronics welding", was definitely a better choice.

care to explain how you would have only saved 400AU?

sean

[Morley]

See sig.

12x12 maps? I'm almost laughing...My 12 year old plain E6 has 20x32...

[benflynn]

go ahead and laugh...it still works great and cost less than tuition...is your old system still under devlopment?ask this same question in a year and i bet we will have more converts

[ZVOLV]

The thing I dont like about MS is that you gotta do odd things like add inline resitors, solder, and things like that.

With something like haltech you can just get the proper sensors and wire em in. No resistors in the signal wires or anything like that. It also says the software uses bar graphs that you just click and drag to manipulate. No numerical input.

Another reason it would be beneficial to go with Haltech is you can take it to almost any dyno tuner and they will know what to do. If you go MS, certain dyno tuners probably wont even touch your car.

[Morley]

OMG you guys really don't like critic do you? Get down to earth for fcks sake, I'm not saying Haltech is the only solution, but neither is MS. On a cost vs. options rate, a used Haltech wins.

Apples to oranges.

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by guidom12345

The thing I dont like about MS is that you gotta do odd things like add inline resitors, solder, and things like that.

I'm not so sure I would count on that, a lot of them require special sensors that you get to fabricate to get to work, be it a trigger wheel or something else along those lines.

And there's nothing odd about an external signal modifier, in all your playing around with lh I'm fairly supprised you havent messed with them

With something like haltech you can just get the proper sensors and wire em in. No resistors in the signal wires or anything like that. It also says the software uses bar graphs that you just click and drag to manipulate. No numerical input.

So shift up and shift down is too difficult? maybe you should be working a french fry machine somewhere instead....

[linuxman51]

Originally Posted by Morley

OMG you guys really don't like critic do you? Get down to earth for fcks sake, I'm not saying Haltech is the only solution, but neither is MS. On a cost vs. options rate, a used Haltech wins.

Apples to oranges.

not really, $200 for a used megasquirt vs $5-600 for an old haltech? go check the current list of features against each other..


you are right about apples to oranges....

[Captain Bondo]

"I'm not so sure I would count on that, a lot of them require special sensors that you get to fabricate to get to work, be it a trigger wheel or something else along those lines."

Haltech actually has the best factory sensor support out there right now. Works directly with motronic 60-2 and cam sync and a ton of other configs. All of the signal conditioners and etc for vr and everything are built in. You tell it what wheel and what sensor, and it does it. The kit comes with AIT and ECT sensors and calibration maps that are factory calibrated. Compensation for AIT heat soak and 3d load/temp/enrichment, better software, better closed loop, more cels with adjustable load points. Dual maps so you can have one for 92 octane and one for 116? And you can switch maps with a toggle switch? Interpolation is great, but 12x12 fixed vs 20x32 variable is no comparison. On and on and on.
For an extra 300 bucks? I'd take it.

MS is great, and a system is only as good as the tuning, so for someone with a pretty stockish drivetrain that wants something that can set up to be decent with the flexibilty of being adjustable, MS it the sh*t. Not trying to flame on MS at all, but I remember any decent mainstream ems was 2 grand when evenryone started doing MS, so it was the greatest thing. But in the few years that we have all had our eyes fixed pretty squarely on MS, the mainstream technology has evolved and gotten more affordable, as it always does.

MS will also continue to evolve, we're just at a point in time where it is a tiny bit behind imo. It's still a great basic system for a lot of people.

[Hank Scorpio]

Man I must be out of date because I thought MS was painfully SIMPLE. I suck at computers to boot.

The software Im using on my T5R is much more complicated.

[Hank Scorpio]

btw str8kruzin you have pictures of anything or are we going to just keep feeding the bench racing fire for the next 20 years?

[Captain Bondo]

MS is definitely very simple, and Haltech is definitely more complex, and ease of use can be somewhat subjective, but the Haltech interface is one of the cleanest imo.

[str8krewzn]

I asked witch EMS to use
you wanna see pixz of me thinkin which to get

[Captain Bondo]

OK that was funny. This mental image of a regular dude with this little smiley-head, squinting at a computer monitor. :thumbsup: