Anyone have a msq file I can get?

[malloy1]

Seems to have a lot of settings to input to get to the point of tuning.

MSEFI mentions the sharing msq files of similiar cars. Is there a link of Volvo msq files out there?? Just trying to get it running well before I take it out on the road. It has poor idle at warmup, poor acceleration, etc.

New at this tuning thing. The hardware and wiring was easy! Little overwhelmed with programming part. Would like to get it running as good as possible.

Any help would be appreciated.

Paul

Setup:
B21F NA/B230F intake
Bosch 21lb injectors/high impedance
Volvo 850 TPS
Bosch CLT
GM AIT
LC-1 WBO2
MS 2.2/MSnS-E ->just fuel

[ovlov760]

I'd send ya one but my setup is so completely different from yours it would probably be useless.

[kyle242gt]

I think you're probably better off starting from scratch and going through each option... why?
1) you have a WB, so you can run VexME and nail your fuel down 100% perfecto very easily.
2) setting each option is a great way to learn what's in MS
3) different versions have different options
4) different setups have different hardware addons (I've got fan control, boost control, and a couple of [unused] extra outputs wired in)

Get it to idle smoothly at around 14:1, 20BTDC.... oops, just saw you aren't running spark yet. If the car runs well enough to drive around the block, and doesn't load up at idle or stall, go to MSnS now. You don't want to invest too much time and effort into tuning it just to hose everything and start over.

[malloy1]

I thought that might be an issue. It seems that most MS Volvo installs are for performance upgrades and not non-performance like mine.

I'm really not sure how all the settings in MS (MSnS-E) affect what hardware. I thought by looking at similiar setups, I could at least figure out to some degree how the settings affect the fuel delivery. Most of the discussions on MSEFI on settings usually just tells people to decrease or increase certain settings.

Paul

[benflynn]

on here some where ther is a ign map for your car..you might have to get some help reading it...search for the map...maybe the boat moters thread...i don't belive in non performance...better streetabilty ang mpg is perfomance just another level

[kyle242gt]

welcome to the world of MS

Learning what options mean and what they do is part and parcel of MSing. We've all been there, except maybe for Kenny (whose mother birthed a full-grown MS dawg).

Just take them one at a time. The MSnS-E site is better than the help file. Part of the reason I suggest spark now is - then you will be on the same basic setup as a lot of guys, and we'll be able to talk option-to-option... otherwise, it takes some ... uh.. :huh: head scratchin to figure out fuel only.

My MS is now in MPG-test mode, so the laptop is at home, but feel free to shoot me a PM if you've got specific questions...

[malloy1]

Originally Posted by kyle242GT

I think you're probably better off starting from scratch and going through each option... why?
1) you have a WB, so you can run VexME and nail your fuel down 100% perfecto very easily.
2) setting each option is a great way to learn what's in MS
3) different versions have different options
4) different setups have different hardware addons (I've got fan control, boost control, and a couple of [unused] extra outputs wired in)

Get it to idle smoothly at around 14:1, 20BTDC.... oops, just saw you aren't running spark yet. If the car runs well enough to drive around the block, and doesn't load up at idle or stall, go to MSnS now. You don't want to invest too much time and effort into tuning it just to hose everything and start over.

It runs and idles ok at the moment. I setup an electric fan to run off of output 4 of the MSnS-E code.

I've played a little with VexME (only at idle). Looks like it can setup the right AFR at normal conditions (i.e. past warm up), but can't see how it can setup accel/decel, ASE, cranking, EGO or some of the other features. Those look like manual adjustments until the car runs right?

I'm at the first stage of tuning. From logworks (LC-1), it looks like it idles at about AFR of 11-12. Haven't had a chance to take it for it's first road test to start tuning because of a couple problems.

1) Seems that I have voltage leaks into the O2 input (pin 23). With the output (analog 2 of the LC-1) unplugged, it still reads a voltage of 1.2-1.3. I checked it on the stim, and the voltage leak doesn't seem to be there->when O2 pot is adjusted, it goes from 0 to 1.0v.

2) I keep having to reflash the MSnS-E firmware because I get the config error where it keeps alternating the fuel pump on and off. This just started last night, it has been running ok for the past week without any major changes to the settings. I have all spark options off. I have flashed the firmware about 5 times last night in a 2-hr period, and used an earlier msq file from before this started happening. Sometimes I can run it, and shut it off, and it's ok on restart, then other times on startup, I get the config error pump thing. Should I use hyperterminal and "program" instead of "upgrade"? Can the O2 problem be causing this problem???


Paul

[malloy1]

Originally Posted by kyle242GT

:
Part of the reason I suggest spark now is - then you will be on the same basic setup as a lot of guys, and we'll be able to talk option-to-option... otherwise, it takes some ... uh.. :huh: head scratchin to figure out fuel only.

Hey! It took me a week to get the electric fan running off of output 4. My head will explode if I don't get this car on the road soon. Spark will have to wait.

Paul

BTW-How do you get anymore wires to fit into the DB-37 case to get spark to work? Mine is packed, and I'm only running fuel.

[kyle242gt]

Originally Posted by malloy1

It runs and idles ok at the moment. I setup an electric fan to run off of output 4 of the MSnS-E code.

I think that might be part of your code problems; I had a terrible time running the Efan on X4. X2, the actual-factual fan control output, works perfectly. Be sure you have a ?choke diode? on the fan's relay; the opening/closing of the relay can fire a voltage spike back into MS.

Originally Posted by malloy1

I've played a little with VexME (only at idle). Looks like it can setup the right AFR at normal conditions (i.e. past warm up), but can't see how it can setup accel/decel, ASE, cranking, EGO or some of the other features. Those look like manual adjustments until the car runs right?

VexMe is the shiz once you can drive the car for ten minutes or more at a time, steady pedal, trying to hit as many bins as possible as often as possible as smoothly as possible (turn accel/overrun/EGO correction off first). Yeah, it's only for after warmup.

Accel, you don't really need. I turn it off for VexME and the car runs fine. Initial tip-in is a little goofy (like blipping the throttle in neutral) but otherwise I don't miss it. FWIW, I use 1.5V threshhold, 2/4/8/16v/sec bins, 3/6/9/12ms pulsewidth. It's about double what I was running before, and didn't really make much difference. Cold accel 130%, decel 80%.

Overrun is great, as long as you're not logging for VexME. I use 1800RPM, TPS a couple of ADC's above closed, one second time delay.

ASE, just play with it. I set mine to 15 seconds, five second fixed then decay, about 150% IIRC. Warmup, same drill, just fiddle with it. I think mine ranges from about 130% at 40F to 0% at 130.

EGO correction is probably best left until after you're tuned. Just drive/log/VexME. I used to do realtime tuning by trying to get the EGOcorr gauge to sit right around 100%, but that's not real responsible to tune and drive... VexME also produces some interesting dips in the VE plot that you wouldn't otherwise think to aim for.

Originally Posted by malloy1

I'm at the first stage of tuning. From logworks (LC-1), it looks like it idles at about AFR of 11-12. Haven't had a chance to take it for it's first road test to start tuning because of a couple problems.

That's gross I idle around 15:1.

Originally Posted by malloy1

1) Seems that I have voltage leaks into the O2 input (pin 23). With the output (analog 2 of the LC-1) unplugged, it still reads a voltage of 1.2-1.3. I checked it on the stim, and the voltage leak doesn't seem to be there->when O2 pot is adjusted, it goes from 0 to 1.0v.

I'd take that question to MSefi in the assembly/testing forum. Sounds weird. Did you clip D11?

Originally Posted by malloy1

2) I keep having to reflash the MSnS-E firmware because I get the config error where it keeps alternating the fuel pump on and off.

get rid of the fan control, see if that helps. I used to use hyperterminal, but used download.exe (bat, whatever) to flash, and it was fine.

Originally Posted by malloy1

BTW-How do you get anymore wires to fit into the DB-37 case to get spark to work? Mine is packed, and I'm only running fuel.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Depends on how fat the angels are IIRC, I used 16~18ga for most everything except power/ground/injectors, which are around 12~14ga. What I frickin HATE is soldering those damn pins

[malloy1]

Kyle-

Thanks for the input.

-I'll turn off output 4, and unsolder X2 jumper from the board for now. I'll plan on moving it over to X4 later. I'll just jumper the fan relay to run the fan full-time. I'll see if that will help with the O2 sensor problem too. I already posted the O2 problem to MSEFI, but no replies yet.

BTW-I used a 1K resistor/2N2222A transistor on the board and a 1N4001 Diode on the base of the fan relay like:

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/outputs.htm

-Vexme looks like it does most of the work. I'll play around with those settings as suggested.

Paul

[malloy1]

I did not know this!! Anything else???

Paul

[kyle242gt]

Do a search here and in MSnS-E for D11 - I'm pretty sure that's the one. It's a 5V zener diode designed to prevent sending 12V into MS via the O2, if the heater wire is connected in error. The problem with it is is starts clamping the voltage down at 4V, introducing ever-wider errors in the O2 voltage, assuming you're running a 0-5V input.

[twotwodoors]

Have you seen an MPG improvements on your NA car since you ms'd it?

[kyle242gt]

Despite all my intentions I managed about half a tank in MSnS/NA before doing the +t so I can't really say. I currently get about 17, city/hwy. I'd like to get that up to 20, but Max boost is 15, but I seldom go that far. I try to stay out of the boost as much as possible, and at about 4PSI when in it.

[malloy1]

Originally Posted by kyle242GT

Do a search here and in MSnS-E for D11 - I'm pretty sure that's the one. It's a 5V zener diode designed to prevent sending 12V into MS via the O2, if the heater wire is connected in error. The problem with it is is starts clamping the voltage down at 4V, introducing ever-wider errors in the O2 voltage, assuming you're running a 0-5V input.

I did a search last night, it's the right one and clipped it.

It was pouring rain, so I'll have to wait until tonight to see if it solves anything.

I may have a ground loop going on, I'll address that after I see if clipping D11 did anything. I want to do everything one step at a time so if I solve it, I'll know what it was.

Paul

[kildea]

I keep having to reflash the MSnS-E firmware because I get the config error where it keeps alternating the fuel pump on and off.

ssorry to ressurect this but i keep having this problem and i'm at my wit's end here.

msns-e i have the recent firmware and megatune bundle from the ms-extra website, whiteblock, poi's settings.

what other info is useful?
any help is greatly appreciated.

[500dollar744ti]

try different firmwares, when you say the latest bundle, what firmware are you referring to?

[kildea]

well i tried the diyautotune windows "bundle" which includes megatune 2.25p1 and a variety of other crap.
i had uploaded the 029y4 firmware to the ms box... the actual firmware (according to my dos window) was 029y3, and the only option available in the config for megatune is 029y2, but looking at the text it refers to 029y3.
the copy.ini file made 029y2 avail in the config program so i'm a bit confused ...

now i'm backing up, i removed the diyautotune bundle and have installed megatune225v3, and i'm downloading the 029y4 from msns-e website and will try to flash the ecu w/it.

does any of this sound familiar to you guys? i am likely missing something that you need to know in order to diagnose so feel free to school me on what i've left out.