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Old 08-26-2006, 08:41 PM   #51
frpe82
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Originally Posted by davidmacq View Post
What psi range does the Malpassi support? Cost?

Not a direct replacement like the Holley?
The Malpassi I bought (in Sweden) cost me $95 and supports 14.5-72.5psi (1-5bar).

And no, the Malpassi is not a direct replacement but a FPR you put in series with the original one.
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Old 12-06-2006, 12:55 PM   #52
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**** our posts from yesterday discussing the 5th injector setup are missing....

Summary:
When you need to drive on E10 (reg. gas) and E85 as well, a easy solution is a 5th injector. The LH ECU adapts very good to this.
Drive on E10, tank almost empty, tank E85, before you start enable the 5th injector and start the car.
Only 'problem' is how to place the 5th injector, it needs to distribute the fuel evenly between the cylinders.

The 5th injector needs to be around 0.39x4 times bigger than the 4 'main' injectors (on a 4 cylinder engine)
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Old 12-06-2006, 01:58 PM   #53
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my car is now running on E85 and wow, just wow. I have a real hard time not running super fast.

I need to work out the kinks for cold start in the mornings, but man the power is awesome.

I just got 210 miles on my first tank on 14.2 gallons of E85. And this is with a 230hp 260ftlb in full weight of 2910 lbs.
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Old 12-06-2006, 08:04 PM   #54
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All threads, info and FAQ is back.

Yep... Now I have worked my ass off and all the threads that got lost or f-ed up in the crash or outdated in the backup are now redone and updated with the latest info.

So the "Chips for redblocks", "Feedback: Chips for redblocks", "Chipping FAQ" and "Converting to E85 (ethanol fuel)" are now back again in full glory.

And yes... I have backups of them all.

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Old 12-07-2006, 06:03 AM   #55
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Fred from that other thread, have you decided that the mod to the ignition grounding the pins for advance is not suitable for running e85 due to the higher rpm issues you mentioned?
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Old 12-07-2006, 06:51 AM   #56
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Fred from that other thread, have you decided that the mod to the ignition grounding the pins for advance is not suitable for running e85 due to the higher rpm issues you mentioned?
It is very much dependant on the cam you are running actually but the same basic things applies to all cars that use E85 in a performance application.

I just added this to the main post:

Tuning spark maps with E85:

With ethanol you can advance the timing pretty much because of two things:

* Burn rate at different rpm's.

* Octane rating.

Thoughts on LH2.2 and LH2.4:

The stock chips are not very good to run ethanol (E85) on. The spark map is f-ed up even for gasoline use, and even more f-ed up for ethanol. It doesnīt look very good when you view it graphically (think roller coaster). The tuned chips I sell will already be at the limit of knock and have a more consistent map and will therefore work excellent with E85. Then it is just a matter of advancing it further if you desire.

Donīt get me wrong. I am not saying that the stock chips are bad in anyway when it comes to running E85, they are just inefficient. Pinging is definitely not an issue since the spark map is very conservative.

Thoughts on programmable EMS:

Advice (at a fixed amount of boost):

* 1000 up to 2500-3000rpm = A lot of advance. Probably more than a sane number. A nice increase in torque is definitely expected .

Why? Because ethanol burns slower at low rpm's, AFR's and pressures. You can also use more advance because of the cooling effect and the higher octane rating.

* 2500-3000 up to almost 5000 = a few degrees more advance than on gasoline (3-9 degrees depending on dynamic compression).

Why? Also dependant on the burn rate. Since the engine will have less time to ignite the mixture the advance compared to gasoline will not be as great number, but great in terms of percent.

* From around 5000 and up = Equal to gasoline or slightly more retarded (yes, more spark retard).

Why? Because here you can let the ethanol do its job. Push the piston downwards and not counteract its motion by lighting the air/fuel mixture off too early. It only leads to unnessecary high cylinder pressure.

Let the piston pass TDC with at least 10 degrees before the peak pressure occurs.

Richer mixture will burn quicker, but... a richer mixture will also raise the threshold of knock.

Follow this rule: MBT = "Minimum ignition for Best Torque". Use the least/smallest possible ignition advance that gives maximum torque.

So... how much advance can you actually run? Since knocking is not the greatest problem with ethanol you should worry about other things, namely the headgasket and other things! You can advance the ignition a lot across the range but how much pressure can the headgasket take? How much pressure can the head bolts take before they stretch? How much force can the rods withstand before bending/breaking?

I ran +3 degrees across the board on my chipped LH2.4 system for a while. It gave me a lot better low end torque but made my engine sound "hard" above 5000rpm at 20psi of boost. The reason it sounded "hard" was that the cylinder pressure was so great at a very early stage of the combustion cycle. It made me gain low end torque but robbed me of horsepower up top.

It is more a rule than an exception that you will have over-advanced the ignition (and thereby loosing power again) before knock occurs on ethanol. The cylinder pressures will therefore become very high so watch the rods/headgasket.

Knock is not proceeded by the rods making a window in the block when running ethanol. The rods will pop out to say hello much earlier than that...

I am now back at the stock setting on my tuned chips again. The torque at low rpm's is lower but I gained top end and the engine sounds healthier.
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Old 12-29-2006, 09:58 PM   #57
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Some info for you who are using / will be using E85:

Regardless of engine managment system used, there are some things that differ between gasoline and ethanol fuel (E85).

At cold start / cold running:

When you look at your AFR gauge/meter (set to measure the AFR of E85 of course, stoichiometric value of 9.765) you will notice some strange things. When the engine (the intake manifold and head in particular) is cold, the AFR gauge will often show lean before the engine has warmed up a bit. It will not show leaner than stoichiometric (9.765) though, but close to stoichiometric.

An engine running gasoline will show rich at cold start and cold running.

Why?

Because E85 condensates much easier on the surface of the intake manifold and head than gasoline, and will not enter the cylinders as a fine mist.

Solution: If you have a programmable EMS, then adjust the cold start settings to deliver a lot more fuel during cranking and warmup procedure. In many cases it requires a lot of enrichment.

And I can promise you that even if you use a programmable EMS it is only marginally easier to get the car started. When it goes below a certain temperature it will be hard or impossible to start the car regardless of EMS unless you blend in some gasoline or use an engine heater of some sort. This usually happens below 2-5*C (35-40*F).

Ethanol as solvent:

Ethanol will not dissolve your fuel lines, injectors or gaskets. Nor will it corrode anything. It is a very common misconseption and the properties of ethanol is often mistaken for the very corrosive properties of methanol.

Upon the first few times of use or the first couple of 1000 miles however, the ethanol will dissolve some residues in the gas tank and fuel lines left there by the gasoline you have used for so long. If you have a lot of sludge in your gas tank and fuel lines it can on some occations clog the fuel filter. I recommend that the fuel filter will be replaced after the first few 1000 miles. After that the gas tank and fuel lines will be clean and you will not have to worry about it anymore (you should not worry about it in the first place either, just take a note of what can happen).

This will eventually be added to the article.
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Old 01-03-2007, 09:47 PM   #58
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my car is nearly impossible to start with e85 when it is cold, is there any timing adjustment or anything that can be done to aid this?

Jonathan
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Old 01-03-2007, 11:03 PM   #59
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my car is nearly impossible to start with e85 when it is cold, is there any timing adjustment or anything that can be done to aid this?

Jonathan
How cold?

As you can see in my previous post, the cold-starts are tricky.

What I do: If you add 10% gasoline it will start at very cold weather. Add 20-25% and it will be almost like starting on gasoline.

But the question is again: How cold are we talking about here?
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:10 AM   #60
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How realistic is it for me to change an older volvo (late 80's) to stright E85 on a TIGHT budget? 1-200$ max?
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:54 AM   #61
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How realistic is it for me to change an older volvo (late 80's) to stright E85 on a TIGHT budget? 1-200$ max?
Very realistic!

Get a set of bigger injectors for cheap, get them cleaned and installed. Thatīs it.
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:46 AM   #62
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E85 has done a weird sort of arc in availability here. It was introduced a couple of years ago and priced right (well below gas). Then, for some reason, the prices for it started creeping upwards, until it was at or (in some cases) above the price of gasoline. Obviously not a good deal considering the MPG hit you will be taking. So sales dropped to near nothing, and stations started covering up their E85 pumps. And that's where the situation sits now. I'd like to use it for the 105 octane, but it's not readily available (only a few stations still have their pumps running, none close to me), and too expensive.

When/if the situation returns to reality, I'll try it. I already set up my MS box to do it, roughly set up table 3 by scaling table 1 up 35%, installed a switch to flip to ground JP3 (IIRC) to swap tables, so I could swap between E85 and gasoline without needing a laptop (just run near empty, refill and flip the switch a little bit after starting).
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:08 AM   #63
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E85 has done a weird sort of arc in availability here. It was introduce a couple of years ago and priced righ (well below gas). Then, for some reason, the prices for ti started creeping upwards, until it was at or (in somecases) above the price of gasoline. Obviously not a good deal considering the MPG hit you will be taking. So sales dropped to near nothing, and stations started covering up their E85 pumps. And that's where the situation sits now. I'd like to use it for the 105 octane, but it's not readily available (only a few stations still have their pumps running, none close to me), and too expensive.

When/if the situation returns to reality, I'll try it. I already set up my MS box to do it, roughly set up table 3 by scaling table 1 up 35%, installed a switch to flip to ground JP3 (IIRC) to swap tables, so I could swap between E85 and gasoline without needing a laptop (just run near empty, refill and flip the switch a little bit after starting).
Can you set it up to have a table 3 for ignition as well?

If you can tune the ignition for maximum power you will gain a lot of power and your mpg will be much better. The mpg will not be like on gasoline but considering that you have increased the table with 35%, the mpg wonīt go down with 25-30% (like expected if you only modify the fuel maps) if the spark table is set up right. The decrease in mpg will most likely then be in the 10-20% range.

You can also run a proportionally leaner mixture (a higher lambda) than on gasoline and thereby also save some fuel and increase your mpg.
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:42 AM   #64
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Yeah, I expected to do a lot of tweaking and tuning when I ever got my hands on the E85, the +35% was just a rough first cut, intended to make the car driveable on its first tank.

With the same switch I swap fuel tables, AFR targets, and ignition tables. So I can tweak Fuel3, AFR3, and Ign2 all to specifically suit the ethanol. And still swap back and forth between gas and E85 with one flip of the switch.
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Old 01-04-2007, 06:35 PM   #65
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Yeah, I expected to do a lot of tweaking and tuning when I ever got my hands on the E85, the +35% was just a rough first cut, intended to make the car driveable on its first tank.

With the same switch I swap fuel tables, AFR targets, and ignition tables. So I can tweak Fuel3, AFR3, and Ign2 all to specifically suit the ethanol. And still swap back and forth between gas and E85 with one flip of the switch.
Nice
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:02 PM   #66
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Default C320 2001 benz

Hello
I would like to ask how and what is the best possible conversion for my car mercedes c320 2001.I heared that 2003 models are e85 compatible.mine is 2001.
Thank you in advance and highly appreciated!
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:24 PM   #67
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Hello
I would like to ask how and what is the best possible conversion for my car mercedes c320 2001.I heared that 2003 models are e85 compatible.mine is 2001.
Thank you in advance and highly appreciated!
What kind of engine does it have? Has anything been done to it?

The easiest thing to do, is to get injectors that are 30-45% larger than stock. In most cases the adaptation to E85 is handled by the ECU alone if you do it this way, and you donīt have to worry about anything else.
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Old 01-14-2007, 08:52 PM   #68
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What kind of engine does it have? Has anything been done to it?

The easiest thing to do, is to get injectors that are 30-45% larger than stock. In most cases the adaptation to E85 is handled by the ECU alone if you do it this way, and you donīt have to worry about anything else.
thank you for reply.The engine is 3.2L v6 and nothing has been changed eversince i bought the car.the ecu is still original.no modification/s.
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:09 PM   #69
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thank you for reply.The engine is 3.2L v6 and nothing has been changed eversince i bought the car.the ecu is still original.no modification/s.
The easiest thing would be to get bigger injectors. It will always work.

Can you tell me the part number of the injectors? Do you know how much they flow?
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:28 PM   #70
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85212183 the part number of the injectors.will they work without changing the injectors?
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:37 PM   #71
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Any reason you can't run straight ethanol (like pure grain alcohol by the bottle ;) ) in a Volvo? Is it just a matter of larger injectors, just like E85?

Does that create any larger problems for fuel lines, pumps, etc?

Would the chips for LH 2.2 work well for E100?

Aaron
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:52 AM   #72
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85212183 the part number of the injectors.will they work without changing the injectors?
I will look at it later during the day.
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:56 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Two 87s View Post
Any reason you can't run straight ethanol (like pure grain alcohol by the bottle ;) ) in a Volvo? Is it just a matter of larger injectors, just like E85?

Does that create any larger problems for fuel lines, pumps, etc?

Would the chips for LH 2.2 work well for E100?

Aaron
You can run E100 instead of E85. It is not a problem. You only need a little bit larger injectors than the 30-45% required for E85.

One problem I can think of, is if the intake temperature drops below 15*C. Then it can get a little bit hard to start the car with E100...

It can be resolved by an extreme amount of enrichment and more fuel at cranking.

Last edited by frpe82; 01-15-2007 at 06:24 PM.. Reason: Word error
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:35 PM   #74
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I will look at it later during the day.
GB REMANUFACTURING Part # 85212183
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # FJ603
ACDELCO Part # 2172940 {#19146090}
INJECTOR,M/PORT FUEL
BOSCH Part # 0280155742 {Injection Valve #280155742}

here are some of the injectors part number offered for both c320 3.2L 2001 until 2005

Thanks!
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:36 PM   #75
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GB REMANUFACTURING Part # 85212183
STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # FJ603
ACDELCO Part # 2172940 {#19146090}
INJECTOR,M/PORT FUEL
BOSCH Part # 0280155742 {Injection Valve #280155742}

here are some of the injectors part number offered for both c320 3.2L 2001 until 2005

Thanks!
Bosch p/n 0280155742 has a listed flow of 15.8lb/hr (166cc/min) at 43.5psi (3bar) fuel pressure. In that case you would need injectors that will flow 22.4lb/hr (235cc/min). The flow number doesnīt have to be exactly dead on.
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