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Old 09-16-2006, 02:56 PM   #1
EvilGenius
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Default Another n/a 2.5L 16 valve

The 1800 race car is getting a 16 valve b234. I have aquired almost all the parts needed, thanks to some people here on Turbobricks. I know that most of the 16v info is turbo based. But I like n/a motors and I cannot run a turbo in the 1800, for a couple of reasons: It would put the car in a class called 'SuperUnlimited' and we'd have to run against Porsche GT3s and 500hp EVO9s, also, there just isn't enough room under the hood of an 1800 for all the plumbing, nor enough room in front for an intercooler or a big enough radiator.... No Bueno. My goal is a motor putting out about 200hp that will live for 25 hours of racing. This is going to be and endurance racer. I have 4 16v heads, one freshly rebuilt w/all new valves and lifters, a b230ft block w/oil squirters, a penta block, a b234 block and a penta 86mm crank. I also have 9mm and 13mm rods, Penta 2.5 pistons (lower comp height), Stock b234 pistons and craploads of stock b234 U cams. My plan is to run the 16 valve ECU with higher flow injectors and use a larger, relocated, throtttle body and a fabricated 4/2/1 header with 3" exhaust.

The car will weigh about 2100 lbs wet, gearing will be determined by the track. My calculations show that a 3.91 gearset will work well at Thunderhill..


I need input. I am going to start assembling this pile of parts into a motor next week. Well, at least start fabricating. The penta block and crank aren't here yet. I'd like to find a set of PZ cams or possibly get an aftermarket grind, I can't get the Cat Cams website to show anything, and I understand that they make cams for the b234.

Ideas, comments?? Am I going down the wrong path? Don't hold back, let me know if I'm making a idiot of myself. I know that everyone will say Megasquirt it... I like the reliability of the Stock Motronic system. Remember, I'm not after a peaky, monster motor, I want a reliable motor that has ok power and dosen't cost huge $$$.

The build up of the car can be seen here:
http://www.evilgeniusracing.com/1800%20Racecar.html

It is not up to date, I'll get it updated soon with higher res images

Thanks to Justin Silva and Phillip Bradley, both are on this forum and have helped with this.
Justin did all the work tearing down the motor and Phillip sold us with the Penta Block and is a font of knowledge when it comes to LH injection...

Thanks.

-John
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:04 PM   #2
frpe82
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Maybe get some of my chips...?
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:14 PM   #3
740Weapon
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200 hp 16 valve n/a should live forever,

using the stock computer is undoubably a bad choice.

get dual weber carbs

or at the very least you need something programable, if only to get a few hundred more rpms out of the motor.
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:19 PM   #4
nohbudi
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You would likely have just as much luck getting Crower to grind you some cams to spec.

http://www.stenparnermotor.se/default.aspx?NodeId=69

You can get some good timing sets there, and if you balance that motor out you can get away with running that underdrive pulley. He sells a set of solid lifters as well, so as to rid yourself of that hydrualic crap.

http://www.stenparnermotor.se/default.aspx?NodeId=57

He also sells some really nice deep sump oil pans, but I personally think you guys could handle coming up with something equally as good.

Finally, Frpe82 on the forums is selling 16v chips for the lh2.4 setups, and should amount to some really nice power gains over the stock computers.
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Old 09-16-2006, 04:11 PM   #5
blkaplan
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If your staying na run 11.5:1 compression and do a nice big plenum airbox and run a programmable fuel and spark solution

that should be very durable and fast
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Old 09-16-2006, 05:09 PM   #6
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John,

what transmission? what engine orientation? leaning the engine over a bit will give you some room for an intake. i agree turbo'ing a 16 valve in an 1800 would require some soul-selling or laws-o-physics breaking...much easier to just go the NA route. i'ld have to agree with the log-plenum intake suggestion, too...even with the engine leaned over you'll be lucky to use 5" runners. it looks like you have an early E body; what are you going to do about the brake MC and booster? getting that bohemouth out of the way will help tramendously.
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Old 09-16-2006, 05:25 PM   #7
EvilGenius
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Default 1800 16v

Engine is going in straight up. the car will have small racing master cylinders and no booster. there is no room for one. If I put the motor in at an angle there is no way to clear the upper suspension mounts with a header, or a cast manifold for that matter. Tranny for now is going to be a m41 w/j type OD. I may go to a ZF, Toyota or T5 in the future, but I need to get this thing done! I have to modify the intake manifold no matter what. The throttle body has to be forward facing to clear the inner fender. I will probably hack off the plemum and weld on a log manifold with a larger t/b at the front. I have to do the math on Plenum size.


-John
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Old 09-16-2006, 05:39 PM   #8
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a tight m46 will be fine for what you are trying to do....
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Old 09-16-2006, 07:15 PM   #9
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I'm no expert with volvo motors, but since you are keeping it NA, id go with the lightest possible rotating assembly. The 9mm rods weigh less I assume? Id try to get it as rev-happy as possible, maybe ITBs if money permits seeing you are already modifying the intake manifold.
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Old 09-16-2006, 09:44 PM   #10
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i doubt the M41 will last long. a guy named Bob Foltz has an upright B19 in his 1800 and uses an M41, but i think he drives pretty conservitively. at least you have an E: there's definitely enough room for a T-5 under the hump. i'ld skip the M46 as it's a bit too long and it'ld be a headache getting it oriented upright with the engine. a T-5 to B20/M41 bellhousing adapter plate would be a pretty simple thing to have a machine shop fab up (unless you have a mill...then you can DIY.)
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Old 09-16-2006, 10:44 PM   #11
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so the hp goal is 200bhp, reliability is a big factor, and you want to use what you have on hand.........

i would use the late b230 block with oil squirters, the penta crank, its forged. the extra stroke will bring the redline down a bit, but you said you didn't want a peaky motor so the extra displacement should help put a litte more torque down low. use the 13mm rods. and the penta pistons.

mounting upright...

use the late b230 oil pump with the b20 pickup on it, they flow a larger volume of oil. baffle the b20 pan and maybe ad some wings to it to get some more oil capacity.

the head...

get rid of the hydrolic lifters and put some solid ones in. besides getting some cams get some adjustable gears. port/gasket match the intake and exaust.

the intake...

the stock b234 intake leans out number 1 and 4 cylinders. so make sure the new plenum will flow evenly between the 4. personaly i would go with itb's .

header and exaust...
4-2-1 will give you the biggest torque curve. i think 3" for the exaust is too big for a 2.5lt na. you will lose alot of exaust velocity. i'de go with a 2.5" manderal bent exaust.

machine work.....

balance everything. deck the block for improved squish . take compresion ratio up to 10 to 1 minumum. might want to spring for some better rod bolts and head studs.

what are you going to do about clutch and flywheel?

i don't think the m40/m41 will do very well with endurance. all the ones i've had seem to go thru bearings pretty quick. i would go with the t-5 as soon as posible. there are lots of gear ratios available, and it lighter than a m40/m41 or a m45/46/47.

i would also vote on going with programable fuel and spark.
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