The 411 on 18t's and 19t's

[BDKR]

Since we were pretty damn close to a genuine threadjack elsewhere, I figured I would start this one. I'm sure others would appreciate the information too.

So I'm saving money for a big killer turbo and my sites for a while had been on a 2871 or 3071. However, I do love Mitsu's and there are advantages in terms of ease of installation since I'm allready Mistu and allready using a nearly identical CHRA.

So, here are some questions.

1) I am under the impression that the "t" wheels dont flow as well as the "g" wheels. Any truth to that?

2) Is there anybody making a 20g cold side for the TD04HL?

3) If I want a turbo capable of flowing for 400hp, which Mitsu is that? I actually thought the 18t might get me to that point, but I guess not.

4) I'm willing to go back to a pre 90 mani for a TD05. That said, what possibility to do we have for leveraging what the DSM guys are doing to build a killer turbo?

If you are a pro Garret guy and don't see the point of a Mitsu, don't bother posting crap like "Just get a Garret" or "It's going to suck" or whatever. Post your own hater Mitsu debunking thread. Make sure you put it in the same place as the "LH 2.4 sucks" and "you can't get more the 200WHP from a stock head" threads.

Instead of just simply being negative, let's try to be productive instead.

how about let's start with where does one procure an 18T or 19T?

ditto on the thread too.

[BDKR]

Originally Posted by 740ATL

how about let's start with where does one procure an 18T or 19T?

ditto on the thread too.

I know Fred knows of guys on that side of the pond that do some interesting stuff with 'em. Over here, forcedperformance.net at the very least does a lot of Mitsu stuff.

[Lucky the Smiling Pirate]

19t is about a thousand bux before the core charge gets refunded to you...then its 750.

19t flows about the same as the 18t as far as cfm goes but its surge line is almost virtical right up to 2.8pr, map peaks at 3pr. people say you cant push more than 320or so whp out of a 19t but whatever, on a good day you could still run 12's with that and after all isnt that the goal of most of our 'moar powa' DD projects?

for some comparison here are overlayed and pretty well lined up compressor maps of the 19t with the 15g, and the 19t with the 20g, as you can see its pretty much right in the middle as cfm goes but for cars that redline at 6k, and have stock cams that fall on their faces at 5k the 19t appears to give the widest powerband possible. (moar boost early= nice flat torque curve)

[thelostartof]

you want 400hp you need to go with either a TD05H-16g6(better known as a BIG 16g off an evo 3) OR a 20g if you want to stay mitsu

turbine housing wise just drop the $ on one from hahn racecraft ... like $500-600 for a 16g and 800 for a 20g

18t will barely hit 300whp and while doing it suck up top

the 16g flows very well down low

remember a 19t is just a larger wheel in an 18t housing hence the map

and the 18t/19t are a huge waste of $ if you want over 300whp..... this is why i have given up on getting one ... my next turbo will be a big 16g or a 20g

[IceCold4x4]

how is the spool rate on the 19t compared to a 15g? as i may just go that route . . .

then the other question, 20g? what's that going to spool like?

[BDKR]

Well, I'm not really after 400hp. I'm looking for 300, but I want a turbo that's capable of doing more should I want to. I'm trying to make sure that should things work out later in time, I'm not forcing myself into another $700 -> $1200 (If I get a brand new GT2871R with associated shizzle).

Great info you guys. I'm about to go home so I'll post more later.

Thanx!

[thelostartof]

Originally Posted by IceCold4x4

how is the spool rate on the 19t compared to a 15g? as i may just go that route . . .

then the other question, 20g? what's that going to spool like?

19t should spool faster than a 15g by a good amount due to the design

and a 20g is a TD06 compressor ... so it is like having a t3/t4 ... spool up is really not all that bad on a TD05H-20g if you have enough flow and maybe a nice header(like what i am going to build for my big turbo when i get it)

[thelostartof]

Originally Posted by BDKR

Well, I'm not really after 400hp. I'm looking for 300, but I want a turbo that's capable of doing more should I want to. I'm trying to make sure that should things work out later in time, I'm not forcing myself into another $700 -> $1200 (If I get a brand new GT2871R with associated shizzle).

Great info you guys. I'm about to go home so I'll post more later.

Thanx!

then i'd recommend the TD05H-16g ... be it a HRC one for $600 and just live with the smaller compressor OR find a evo3 and get the 16g6 off it and swap it onto that 16g ... please please please do not run an old style manifold and volvo TD05 housing ... the amount of power you lose from those is really not worth it .... the HRC part is really nice and they have 8cm2 and 10cm2 turbine housings .. the 10cm2 is REALLY nice ... a bit big(around .72ar) but really helps for top end grunt and means you do not have to do any port work


the HRC mitsu's use the same oil feed and return lines as our TD04's so you just need to do water adapters

but again for that 10cm2 housing i'd really recommend a very well ported manifold or a header even a log header is better than stock and will help with spool up



oh and 20g wise i've been told you can have 15psi by 3200 and 24+psi by 3800. that is on a 2.3L 4v/cyl engine and on the TD05H 10cm2 turbo ... the larger 12cm2 housing OR a td06 or td06h 20g's are only good for 2.5L or larger engines but then again they flow a lot more cfm than they make boost .. where as the 16g6 makes a lot more boost efficienty but not as much air flow as the 20g so the 20g is better suited for an engine that will rev to 8000rpm and the 16g6 is better for 6-7k redlines

[IceCold4x4]

so the 19t should make 300 RWHP on a ported 531 head then right?

[Lucky the Smiling Pirate]

Originally Posted by IceCold4x4

how is the spool rate on the 19t compared to a 15g? as i may just go that route . . .

then the other question, 20g? what's that going to spool like?

based on numbers (i.e. benchracing which this thread is all about) the 19t should spool as fast as a 13c.

based on a 80% head VE, math says you should be able to hit 22psi by 1900rpm and not run out of turbo until 6700rpm...thats a pretty wide power band, but the efficiencies at the low and high ends of flow on that map are down around 65% so be sure to have a really good intercooler to over come the heat generated by that extra inefficiency.
higher low will lower the spool time even more and lower the point at which the turbo maxes out so in that respect yes, a 19t will give you room to grow. but a 20g will make more peak power right out of the box assuming it doesnt surge.

the 20g on the other hand...at least on a td06 housing isn't gonna hit 22psi until about 4500rpm but you'll start making *some* boost as early as you would on the 19t.

basically you can spend alot and have a real good amount of power early, or you can spend less and have a rediculous amount of power in your top end.

[thelostartof]

yea but that is a td06 which is HUGE ... the TD05H is a lot better for spool up .. as said on the 2.3L engine it made 15psi by 3k or so ... and @ 2k there was already 2-3psi on the guage

[Hank Scorpio]

There are no mistus that will bolt right on and make 400hp.

[Lucky the Smiling Pirate]

Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio

There are no mistus that will bolt right on and make 400hp.

there arent any garrets either, unless you wanna swap your exhaust manifold for an appropriate model /neeedless harrassment

Doug is right tho.

and mike what BDKR needs to decide is whether he wants 22 psi early and have no more pull in OD at 4k rpm than he does in 2nd gear at 2k rpm OR whether he wants to feel like hes in a freakin jet when he floors it on the highway We know where you fall in that category, and once i have a manual I'll prolly be where you are

[`pr0digy]

The more I hear about mitsu's the better a Holset sounds :p

[thelostartof]

Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio

There are no mistus that will bolt right on and make 400hp.

uh the HRC turbos have a t3 flange .. and from there it is just machine manifold flat and then water lines ..reuse stock oil lines

same goes for any GT series turbo ... tho the mitsu's cost about $400+ less

[BDKR]

Originally Posted by Hank Scorpio

There are no mistus that will bolt right on and make 400hp.

Well that's what we want to make clear. That's the point of this thread.

One of my biggest questions was if it could be acheived on a TD04HL hotside with a huge cold side. Those things spool with a quickness!

Originally Posted by Lucky the Smiling Pirate

there arent any garrets either, unless you wanna swap your exhaust manifold for an appropriate model /neeedless harrassment

I don't think so. I could get a GT2871 or GT3071: both of which have T3 hotsides (and therefore will bolt on to my 90+. In spite of the fact that I need to tweak my oil and water lines a little, I'd still say it's a bolt on.

These are also BB CHRA's. A .63 hotside on one of these is still going to spool relatively quickly. Of course, I have point of comparison with a TD04HL.

[MrBill]

Originally Posted by BDKR

I don't think so. I could get a GT2871 or GT3071: both of which have T3 hotsides (and therefore will bolt on to my 90+. In spite of the fact that I need to tweak my oil and water lines a little, I'd still say it's a bolt on.

Dont they have an incompatable t25 flange?

[Oreo931]

Sorry to sort of go OT...but how much rwhp do you think the 15g turbo can make w/ 3" dp + exhaust and fredchip?

[BDKR]

Originally Posted by Oreo931

Sorry to sort of go OT...but how much rwhp do you think the 15g turbo can make w/ 3" dp + exhaust and fredchip?

Start another thread. Or search. It's been answered.

[BDKR]

Originally Posted by MrBill

Dont they have an incompatable t25 flange?

I can just about whatever hotside arrangement I want from ATP.

[benflynn]

both suck. garrett will always rock the house

for 400hp get a 17c, but the dp flange is large and flat, it is rotated 30* so a flat flange 15g dp will not work w/o being 'reclocked'

i have decided to stay away from mitsu, too expensive for me, and i like slow too big turbos, helps w/the manhood

[impulse922]

3071, end of conversation.

[Lucky the Smiling Pirate]

Originally Posted by Oreo931

Sorry to sort of go OT...but how much rwhp do you think the 15g turbo can make w/ 3" dp + exhaust and fredchip?

240wheel on a good day

[benflynn]

420cfm for 15g